Margaret Thatcher and the new conservatism (from 1975)

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I remember as a college student I had a history professor who was an admitted communist who hated capitalism, hated America and hated Thatcher. For our final exam, we had to write short essays on how evil Thatcher was and how she ruined the UK by privatizing the telephone companies, among other things. That's what comes to mind when I think of Thatcher.
 
Well, I'm not quite old enough to remember that speech from the first time. I do have a vague recollection of her election as leader and it being a big deal because of her being the first female PM, and the early 1980s when her name was mud in Ireland due to the hunger strikes.

I am not really a Thatcherite anymore but your college professor should really have sampled life in the UK in the 1970s. It wasn't a hell of a lot of fun. The 1980s were a distinct improvement, for most people.
 
I remember as a college student I had a history professor who was an admitted communist who hated capitalism, hated America and hated Thatcher. For our final exam, we had to write short essays on how evil Thatcher was and how she ruined the UK by privatizing the telephone companies, among other things. That's what comes to mind when I think of Thatcher.

:up:

Although I'm not particularly fond of the fact that this history professor forced his students to subscribe to his views and not let them make up their own minds.

That said, I have a less than positive opinion of Thatcher, at least from what I've known.
 
Well, by the way I described that professor, she was clearly a leftist radical and lived up to the stereotypes some people have of liberals in this country. For example, she actually told us there's nothing wrong with communism and the U.S. media told lies about the Soviet Union. I felt like asking her if the gulags were all lies too, but I probably would've failed the class for going against her ideology.

So no, there was no way that professor would've thought in the smallest measure that Thatcher did some good for the U.K.
 
Well, by the way I described that professor, she was clearly a leftist radical and lived up to the stereotypes some people have of liberals in this country. For example, she actually told us there's nothing wrong with communism and the U.S. media told lies about the Soviet Union. I felt like asking her if the gulags were all lies too, but I probably would've failed the class for going against her ideology.

She was right on that count, but defending the Soviet Union is pretty darned ridiculous. Gotta hate people who shove their views onto everyone, though. :giggle:
 
(Reagan followed her, and not the other way around.)

That's not true. Reagan was giving speeches like this since the early 60's, his campaigning for Goldwater, his governorship of CA, his radio addresses in the mid 70's, his first run for president in 76 and of course his presidency.

But cheers to Prime Minister Thatcher.

What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.
 
What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

And people like Lech Walesa.

Of course he's now supporting OWS so I guess he's off the list.
 
Wouldn't be surprised - I'm pretty sure he's v. Catholic.
 
Can't all of the afore mentioned people just go the fuck away.

It's a new century.

We need real people, with real ideas and real actions.
 
What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

Are you capable of discussing anything without spewing propaganda?

If, for the sake of argument, you were gay in the 1980s in Britain or America, would you make such a statement as the above?
 
there's nothing wrong with communism

She was right on that count

Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.
Gotta hate people who shove their views onto everyone, though. :giggle:
That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.
 
Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.

That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.

I already know how this is going to be answered. Vlad is going to say the Soviet Union's system wasn't true communism.
 
Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.

That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.

Since when did I ever support the Soviet Union? I, like the vast majority communists, despise Stalin and all the leaders that succeeded him.

Would you care to define communism for me?

I already know how this is going to be answered. Vlad is going to say the Soviet Union's system wasn't true communism.

It wasn't even socialism, state capitalism is the best way to describe it. So, yes, you are right that I was going to say that.
 
Are you capable of discussing anything without spewing propaganda?

If, for the sake of argument, you were gay in the 1980s in Britain or America, would you make such a statement as the above?

That's another of your hypotheticals but yes, I'd say gays are better off in free, and until recently, economically thriving democracies than living under the communist regimes that these 3 leaders (minus U2, don't you have a freakin' sense of humor at all) ushered into the dustbin of history.

PPPM.jpg


It's a common belief among conservatives and quite defendable as more substantive than mere propaganda.
 
That's another of your hypotheticals but yes, I'd say gays are better off in free, and until recently, economically thriving democracies than living under the communist regimes that these 3 leaders.

Again, not to be too pedantic, but there is no such thing as a 'communist regime'. Thought I'd just correct you on that. I would agree that being a gay would be better off living in the US in comparison to the authoritarian Soviet Union.
 
Again, not to be too pedantic, but there is no such thing as a 'communist regime'. Thought I'd just correct you on that. I would agree that being a gay would be better off living in the US in comparison to the authoritarian Soviet Union.

Regime - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of REGIME

2
a : mode of rule or management
b : a form of government <a socialist regime>
c : a government in power
d : a period of rule

Are you going to tell me that communist states don't, and have never existed? Please don't say yes.
 
I like that it seems that absolutely everyone in London knows that it's Trafalgar Square the first Saturday after she dies.

Anyway, both Reagan and Thatcher are hugely complicated. Anyone who thinks either are above criticism clearly have absolutely no - zero - understanding of the pickle we're all in today, or in the case of Reagan/US, the pickle your politics are in today. And anyone who thinks they were wholly the spawn of Satan also need to do a bit of a re-read. At the very least, Thatcher did claw Britain out of the dark, and Reagan was, at the very least, a great figurehead and 'leader' for the US, certainly re-established a great confidence in 'America'. But their actual achievements in office, and legacy beyond - complicated.

It's interesting though that in the US, Reagan is deified, almost untouchable, with the mythology waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the reality (and in such a short time), while in the UK, you can pretty much only whisper Thatchers name, and to be tagged as a fan, or worse, 'Thatcherite'... Excuse me sir, I think you should leave.
 
Regime - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of REGIME

2
a : mode of rule or management
b : a form of government <a socialist regime>
c : a government in power
d : a period of rule

Are you going to tell me that communist states don't, and have never existed? Please don't say yes.

They never have, there is no such thing as a communist state. Communism = a stateless, classless, moneyless society.

Socialism, which is the transitional period towards communism, however, does (in some cases, as there are numerous different tendencies that each propose a different path towards communism) have a state.

So you may be confusing the two words.
 
300px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png


You're right. Pay no attention to the flag's color, 5 pointed red star or hammer & sickle. They have no more symbolic meanings than our flag's 13 stripes or 50 stars.

My bad.
 
The flag doesn't matter, the nature of the USSR was hardly socialist. I'm guessing you're one of those people who still staunchly believe that North Korea and China are socialist, am I correct in making that assumption?
 
I'm completely ignorant when it comes to world politics so take this with a few grains of salt but to me it seems you're being super-technical vlad. Maybe pure communism never existed but I'm sure it existed in some way. And China is governed by the Communist Party! I would think if you surveyed 100 people just about all of then would say communism existed.
 
I'm completely ignorant when it comes to world politics so take this with a few grains of salt but to me it seems you're being super-technical vlad. Maybe pure communism never existed but I'm sure it existed in some way. And China is governed by the Communist Party! I would think if you surveyed 100 people just about all of then would say communism existed.

Heh, I'm not really being that technical as a society which lacks a class, state and money has never existed in this world at all. I understand what you mean that they're governed by a so-called Communist Party but the truth is that the nature of the political system is anything but.

China isn't even remotely communist, no matter what they call themselves.

+1
 
I'll just shut up because I'm way out of my depth. But do you see how people who aren't particularly well versed in international politics would think communism exists?
 
I'll just shut up because I'm way out of my depth. But do you see how people who aren't particularly well versed in international politics would think communism exists?

Yeah, definitely. I personally don't mind if you ask questions like the previous, it's all a part of learning.
 
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