Margaret Thatcher and the new conservatism (from 1975)

[financeguy]

Like it or loathe it, this speech really was ground zero for a new type of conservative politics. (Reagan followed her, and not the other way around.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK3eP9rh4So

Margaret Thatcher was 86 yesterday.

How far she, and we, have come since those halcyon days!

[Pearl]

I remember as a college student I had a history professor who was an admitted communist who hated capitalism, hated America and hated Thatcher. For our final exam, we had to write short essays on how evil Thatcher was and how she ruined the UK by privatizing the telephone companies, among other things. That's what comes to mind when I think of Thatcher.

[financeguy]

Well, I'm not quite old enough to remember that speech from the first time. I do have a vague recollection of her election as leader and it being a big deal because of her being the first female PM, and the early 1980s when her name was mud in Ireland due to the hunger strikes.

I am not really a Thatcherite anymore but your college professor should really have sampled life in the UK in the 1970s. It wasn't a hell of a lot of fun. The 1980s were a distinct improvement, for most people.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Pearl

I remember as a college student I had a history professor who was an admitted communist who hated capitalism, hated America and hated Thatcher. For our final exam, we had to write short essays on how evil Thatcher was and how she ruined the UK by privatizing the telephone companies, among other things. That's what comes to mind when I think of Thatcher.

Although I'm not particularly fond of the fact that this history professor forced his students to subscribe to his views and not let them make up their own minds.

That said, I have a less than positive opinion of Thatcher, at least from what I've known.

[Pearl]

Well, by the way I described that professor, she was clearly a leftist radical and lived up to the stereotypes some people have of liberals in this country. For example, she actually told us there's nothing wrong with communism and the U.S. media told lies about the Soviet Union. I felt like asking her if the gulags were all lies too, but I probably would've failed the class for going against her ideology.

So no, there was no way that professor would've thought in the smallest measure that Thatcher did some good for the U.K.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Well, by the way I described that professor, she was clearly a leftist radical and lived up to the stereotypes some people have of liberals in this country. For example, she actually told us there's nothing wrong with communism and the U.S. media told lies about the Soviet Union. I felt like asking her if the gulags were all lies too, but I probably would've failed the class for going against her ideology.

She was right on that count, but defending the Soviet Union is pretty darned ridiculous. Gotta hate people who shove their views onto everyone, though.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by financeguy

(Reagan followed her, and not the other way around.)

That's not true. Reagan was giving speeches like this since the early 60's, his campaigning for Goldwater, his governorship of CA, his radio addresses in the mid 70's, his first run for president in 76 and of course his presidency.

But cheers to Prime Minister Thatcher.

What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by INDY500

What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

And people like Lech Walesa.

Of course he's now supporting OWS so I guess he's off the list.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by INDY500

What a different and better world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

Fixed.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by anitram

And people like Lech Walesa.

Of course he's now supporting OWS so I guess he's off the list.

Isn't he staunchly anti-abortion?

[anitram]

Wouldn't be surprised - I'm pretty sure he's v. Catholic.

[deep]

Can't all of the afore mentioned people just go the fuck away.

It's a new century.

We need real people, with real ideas and real actions.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by INDY500

What a different and darker the world would be today without Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II and U2 stepping onto the world stage at the beginning of the 80's.

Are you capable of discussing anything without spewing propaganda?

If, for the sake of argument, you were gay in the 1980s in Britain or America, would you make such a statement as the above?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2

She was right on that count

Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.

Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2

Gotta hate people who shove their views onto everyone, though.

That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.

That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.

I already know how this is going to be answered. Vlad is going to say the Soviet Union's system wasn't true communism.

[yolland]

Thatcher Sings "My Way" - Spitting Image, 1990

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Why the Berlin Wall to keep Soviet East Germans from fleeing to West Germany then? Why the Bolshevik government's Red Terror that killed or executed 500,000 suspected anti-communist Russians? Why the... oh never mind.

That's kinda the way with Communists though isn't it? Not really big on dissent. Which explains the gulags, forced labor camps, the KBG and... oh never mind.

Since when did I ever support the Soviet Union? I, like the vast majority communists, despise Stalin and all the leaders that succeeded him.

Would you care to define communism for me?

Originally Posted by financeguy

I already know how this is going to be answered. Vlad is going to say the Soviet Union's system wasn't true communism.

It wasn't even socialism, state capitalism is the best way to describe it. So, yes, you are right that I was going to say that.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Are you capable of discussing anything without spewing propaganda?

If, for the sake of argument, you were gay in the 1980s in Britain or America, would you make such a statement as the above?

That's another of your hypotheticals but yes, I'd say gays are better off in free, and until recently, economically thriving democracies than living under the communist regimes that these 3 leaders (minus U2, don't you have a freakin' sense of humor at all) ushered into the dustbin of history.



It's a common belief among conservatives and quite defendable as more substantive than mere propaganda.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by INDY500

That's another of your hypotheticals but yes, I'd say gays are better off in free, and until recently, economically thriving democracies than living under the communist regimes that these 3 leaders.

Again, not to be too pedantic, but there is no such thing as a 'communist regime'. Thought I'd just correct you on that. I would agree that being a gay would be better off living in the US in comparison to the authoritarian Soviet Union.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2

Again, not to be too pedantic, but there is no such thing as a 'communist regime'. Thought I'd just correct you on that. I would agree that being a gay would be better off living in the US in comparison to the authoritarian Soviet Union.

Regime - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of REGIME

2
a : mode of rule or management
b : a form of government <a socialist regime>
c : a government in power
d : a period of rule

Are you going to tell me that communist states don't, and have never existed? Please don't say yes.