Margaret Thatcher and the new conservatism (from 1975)

[Pearl]

Gotta give her credit for surviving long in a man's world.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i couldn't begin to pretend to know or understand Thatcher's influence on the UK or the world as a whole. but i will say that i find the UK a vibrant, fascinating place with one of the world's truly great cities at it's core, and i can't help but think that she had at least something to do with the country's seemingly successful post-war, post-Empire realignment/reassessment.

surely she can't be all bad?

I'm having this problem too. Not knowing much about her, and still not understanding what conservatism and socialism really mean despite studying them for a semester this year, it's hard to get a gauge. The left are painting her as an evil witch, and the right are lauding her as one of the world's greatest leaders.

[iron yuppie]

She's basically the UK version of Reagan: wildly polarizing and almost impossible to assess fairly.

[cobl04]

[LemonMelon]

My condolences to her family, but her ideology was diametrically opposed to my own. People with a social conscience hated her for many valid reasons.

[Pearl]

Whoa, that Socialist Worker cover is appalling.

[Kieran McConville]

Pretty sure some of those cover shots must be artful parodies. "Maggie Dead in Bed At Ritz"?

[cobl04]

It is The Sun.

[cobl04]

It's a little odd to see some of the same people who decried those rejoicing at Osama's death taking great delight in Thatcher's death.

[dan_smee]

Originally Posted by Axver

Rarely have I been so happy to see a page updated. I don't normally approve of celebrating the death of another, but in this case I am gleefully making an exception. Call me a hypocrite, I don't care right now.

Get fucked Maggie. The world is now a better place. Let us all have a moment of silence for all the lives she fucked up, all the families whose daily existence she made more difficult, all the industries she decimated, and all the countries polluted by the noxious influence she spread throughout the world.

PS To the "show some respect" crowd, hell no. She deserved no respect in life and she deserves none in death.

Chaser Eulogy Song High Quality - YouTube

[mama cass]

here's an interesting article:

Margaret Thatcher and misapplied death etiquette | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i couldn't begin to pretend to know or understand Thatcher's influence on the UK or the world as a whole. but i will say that i find the UK a vibrant, fascinating place with one of the world's truly great cities at it's core, and i can't help but think that she had at least something to do with the country's seemingly successful post-war, post-Empire realignment/reassessment.

surely she can't be all bad?

Originally Posted by cobl04

I'm having this problem too. Not knowing much about her, and still not understanding what conservatism and socialism really mean despite studying them for a semester this year, it's hard to get a gauge. The left are painting her as an evil witch, and the right are lauding her as one of the world's greatest leaders.

Irvine511 and cobl, here are a few reasons, taken from the article in the above link (the Falklands war was another of her terrible and brutal mistakes which isn't mentioned below):

Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Whoa, that Socialist Worker cover is appalling.

In what way? It seems pretty fair to me, not to mention the many, many workers who suffered under her rule.

[cobl04]

Nm

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by cobl04

It's a little odd to see some of the same people who decried those rejoicing at Osama's death taking great delight in Thatcher's death.

I agree. It sounds somewhat hypocritical.

Like here in America, right wingers were angry as hell when liberals bashed Reagan when he died. But guaranteed when Clinton or Obama pass away, conservatives will be dancing in the streets.

Basically, people aren't saying "respect the dead" here. They're asking everyone to feel the same way they do and anything not like theirs is invalid.

As I said, I think Thatcher should be given credit for being a powerful woman in a man's arena. She may not have done things that helped the world much, but she was tough and strong enough to get and stay where she was. Give credit when due?

But hey, I'm not British so I have no idea what it was like living under and after her premiership (is that what its called?).

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by cobl04

It's a little odd to see some of the same people who decried those rejoicing at Osama's death taking great delight in Thatcher's death.

who are you aiming that at cobl?

i'm not "taking great delight" in her death, more a weird sense of relief, of an oppression lifted - hard to explain really, but find it dishonest to shed fake tears for the old tyrant and jump on the bandwaggon eulogising her - i criticised her in life and her death doesn't change history...

and remember - Bin Laden was murdered - whether that was a good or bad thing, the celebratory aspect didn't sit well with me... i think the two situations are completely different, but hey, you can think it's all the same if you like

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Pearl

As I said, I think Thatcher should be given credit for being a powerful woman in a man's arena.

i don't think anyone's denying that Pearl, heck, even i acknowledged that a couple of pages back...

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by mama cass

i don't think anyone's denying that Pearl, heck, even i acknowledged that a couple of pages back...

I didn't say anyone was and my comment was not directed at anyone in particular; it was a general comment.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Pearl

I didn't say anyone was and my comment was not directed at anyone in particular; it was a general comment.

ok, well, she has always been given credit for that particular achievement, of being a strong woman in a man's world, that's why i found your comment a bit odd... however, she certainly was not a feminist icon...

[u2popmofo]

Originally Posted by cobl04

It's a little odd to see some of the same people who decried those rejoicing at Osama's death taking great delight in Thatcher's death.

There is the absolute thinnest line separating what we think of as Conservatism and Liberalism in the West. In situations like these, it's blatantly obvious that both sides are full of the exact same type of shitty human beings who rejoice in bad things happening to anyone who doesn't agree with them.

[LemonMelon]

How influential could she have been in the year 2013 anyway? I mean, I don't live in Britain, so maybe I'm missing something, but she hasn't been a member of parliament in over 20 years. She still had a voice, but her death doesn't stop any orders from being made. It doesn't directly benefit the world in any meaningful way really, so I see no reason to feel upbeat about her death.

If the ideology she left behind died, that would be cool.