|
Click Here to Login |
Register | Premium Upgrade | Blogs | Gallery | Arcade | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read | Log in |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
![]() |
#521 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
Quote:
To address the specific point in this thread When summarizing a statistic in a poll that, by any objective measure, shows a very dim view of Obamacare - and that is deemed "wildly inaccurate" (by a moderator!) because it didn't include the qualifying statement "without any changes" is just an age old dodge that ignores the core of the post and flow of discussion. As for the government shutdown, a President refusing to negotiate with Congress is not an innocent party in the event. Delaying the individual mandate would have given the administration time to get a working website and perhaps address the fallout from all the policy cancellations. As they say, Pride comes before the Fall and Obama's insistence that the individual mandate go forward on October 1 has led directly to the dismal view of Obamacare today. One the broader topic: When I originally joined Interference, it was a place where people with a great love of U2 could chat about a variety of topics including politics, religion, television, food, etc. The common bond of U2 brought together a very diverse collection of people from across the globe. We even had gift exchanges. And FYM was far more active. Threads use to address narrow issues which helped in keeping everyone on topic and sincere in the discussion. Things changed over time. Religious conversations in the Goal Is Soul were eventually moved to FYM (the fairly calm theological discussion among Christians were now frequently subject to harsh secular scrutiny). Politics became more partisan, to the point that nearly identical fact patterns could result in wildly different conclusions simply based on party affiliation. Today, I find many thread to be little more than a shout down of opposing views, where slapping labels of racism, sexism, lack of compassion, etc. on the non-conforming member takes the replace of thoughtful debate. I had the great pleasure of meeting Dreadsox (another old school Interference member and significant FYM contributor) for the first time a couple months back (how we ran into each other was nothing short of amazing). I asked him why he was no longer active in this forum (we often disagreed on subjects, but could gain a much better understanding of each other, our positions and our rational through our discussions). He simply said the debate was gone. I have to agree with him. I miss the family we once had. PS - If someone takes personal offense to how I phrase something - send me a PM. I am more than happy to discuss the matter with you. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#522 | ||
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,673
Local Time: 02:40 PM
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#523 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
I wonder how many of the people who want Obamacare changed want something more like other western countries. That number is being thrown out as if 93 percent of people just want things back to the way things were.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#524 | |
Self-righteous bullshitter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,900
Local Time: 04:40 PM
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#525 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#526 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,725
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
i think it's become more and more difficult to defend "conservative" positions in here due in part to FYM regular numbers (being a U2 site, there are going to be lots of left leaning folks who care about social justice) and in part to the difficulty of holding those positions, and that's one reason for the exodus.
another reason is Facebook, a third reason is U2's relative lack of output. why come to Interference to begin with? if you go back and look through old threads, especially on something like same-sex marriage, it's incredible to watch the same arguments play out form 2004 on, and with more and more in support with each passing year. arguments can be won, and if you've lost, why would you stick around? it's easy to try to shut down discussion by saying, "don't call me a bigot!" cries of, "don't call me a racist!" or, "don't call me a sexist!" or, "don't play the race/gender card!" shut down discussion before it can even begin because it turns an argument into an insult, and assumes that the examination of racism is worse than actual racism itself. when the arguments aren't there to be made, we see a lot of retreating into these various defensive postures, and it's an uncomfortable place to be unless one really enjoys the fight. which some do. and that's great, i'd like more of it. but on the whole, i think the biggest thing are the reasons for the decline of FYM are the reasons mentioned earlier -- lower overall participation because of Facebook and less U2 -- as well as the fact that, despite our polarized politics, things really have gotten better since the post-9/11 era. we don't have thousands of people dying in the desert any more. we don't have government administration officials talking about mushroom clouds. we don't torture any more. the religious right no longer vetoes SCOTUS nominees. now, we argue over whether or not poor people should have access to health insurance. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#527 | ||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, if I remember correctly, Dreadsox once popped in to say he said what he needed to say, or something like that. Whether that is true or not, I feel he made sense. Sometimes after you've made your point, there's no need to make it ad infinitum. |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#528 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Another point I want to make about the problems with FYM is the moderation. Now, Diemen and KhanadaRhodes do a great job already, but they are the only ones handling this forum. FYM needs more mods to keep us in line. I remember Pax did a lot back in the day, but she was not the only one here.
I think Interference needs to get new moderators and remove most of the names on the moderator list. Most of them - sulawesigirl4, yolland, bonosloveslave, etc. - have not been around for years. Why are they still listed as mods then? Guess Interference itself needs a makeover. ![]() Mods - I know what I said should be addressed in a PM, but I just wanted to make a point that probably others are thinking. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#529 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York / Dallas / Austin
Posts: 14,090
Local Time: 01:40 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#530 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 11:40 AM
|
we should all go on a hunger strike
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#531 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#532 |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 64,498
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#533 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Quote:
But I really don't see the point in naming certain members who haven't been active in years as moderators here or anywhere on Interference. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#534 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
Quote:
For the shutdown, I'll assume you read and analyzed every GOP proposal and found all to be extortion. Perhaps not. Even a proposal for a one year delay in the individual mandate (as such was given to the business mandate by executive fiat) was rejected wholesale. You can't refuse to come to the table and then accuse the other side of extortion. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#535 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#536 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,892
Local Time: 02:40 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#537 |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 64,498
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#538 | ||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:40 PM
|
Quote:
I went away from the forum for several reasons (military service, work related travel, constant antagonism toward anything that even hinted "conservative") - but since returning I've more or less enjoyed the "vibe" here. We had some heated discussions about the Zimmerman trial, but I saw a lot give and take on the surrounding issues of the case. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#539 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Quote:
1. I have changed my political opinions, quite a few of them. Growing up my parents called me Alex P. Keaton, let's just put it that way. I didn't really begin identifying myself as a liberal until around 2008, for a number of reasons. I credit my former status as a conservative as being youthful naivety. I would have voted for George W. Bush in 2004; I was also 13 years old. 2. I don't think every issue is right/wrong, but there are some. Like same-sex marriage. You're right or you're wrong. You're for legalizing it (right) or you're against legalizing it (wrong). Issues like that don't have two legitimate arguments, quite honestly, and the longer we pretend that they do, the more damage we do. 3. Name-calling is calling someone an asshole or an idiot. Identifying a bigot as a bigot is not name-calling, and there's an important distinction that has to be made there. If you think identifying someone as a bigot is name-calling, you're devaluing the impact of bigotry by making it seemingly less offensive than the perceived impoliteness of calling someone a bigot. You're also putting it on the same level as someone swearing out of frustration, when it's usually a much more considered approach that leads one to identify someone as a bigot. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#540 | |||||
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,725
Local Time: 03:40 PM
|
Quote:
what's changed is that i think i'm much less idealistic than i used to be, and i think i see the downsides to my "positions" more than in the past, but i can't think of a major hot button issue that i've changed my mind on. however, i do think i say more, "yes, but ..." than i might have in the past. so, for example, while i might say that the ACA can and will likely work, i don't think it's the best solution to the health care crisis, but i do think it's the best one that's possible. does that make sense? Quote:
i'm glad you're back. i really am. Quote:
Quote:
yes, i feel like we've "won" on SSM. i feel as if we've "won" on the Iraq War. i think we've "won" when it comes to torture. have i "lost"? well, that plays back into the narrative we'd probably all do best to avoid. i really can't say, i know i've admitted being wrong about certain things, but specifics are hard to come by. i'm sure there are posters who think i'm always wrong -- you could ask them. i will also say that i think there are posters, many now gone, who were much more effective at advocating their positions that i've ever been or will ever be. i think yolland, A_W, melon, sean, and anitram are as good as the forum gets, and i think they all do a better job than i do. Quote:
|
|||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|