Mandatory Health Insurance part 3

[PhilsFan]

Good grammar is something we can all get behind. KILL THAT YOU'RE WITH FIRE.

[solemole]

Originally Posted by nathan1977

I'm sorry to have to do this, but

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

Chill.. I'm on my mobile.

[nathan1977]

How Obamacare will change employer-provided insurance - CBS News

...In the years to come, some workers with employer-provided benefits will see their benefits scaled back because of an Obamacare tax. That portion of the law -- known as the "Cadillac tax" -- isn't set to take effect until 2018, but it's already influencing the benefits packages that employers offer.

"Every employer plan since the passage of the health care law has been working to make sure their health care cost trends keep their plans under the 'Cadillac tax,'" Steve Wojcik of the National Business Group on Health, a nonprofit that represents large employers, told CBSNews.com.

The administration's argument for the individual market applies to the employer-based market: No one with health insurance should expect to keep their current plan forever.

"The expectation was never there that a plan is going to be set in stone for any length of time," Wojcik said. "Plans should adopt to new evidence and new benefits practices -- they shouldn't be set in stone... We've wanted to do something about health care costs growing out of control."

That said, Wojcik added, the "Cadillac tax" is "bringing more immediacy" to the issue, prompting employers to scale back plans they wouldn't otherwise, "with the 2018 deadline looming."

"The clear expectation was and is that the 'Cadillac tax' -- the tax on high-cost health plans -- will cause those [employers offering] highly generous plans to pare back benefits somewhat so that they won't be subject to the tax," Paul Van de Water, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, explained to CBSNews.com. "It's not going to affect a large number of people to begin with, but it is significant in the longer run in terms of its potential to hold down health care costs."

In 2018, the rule will impose a 40 percent excise tax on employee benefits exceeding $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. In 2013, the average employer-sponsored for individuals cost $5,884 and the average family plan cost $16,351.

The impact of the tax is concerning to labor groups that have fought with employers for good benefits.

"Yes, if you like your plan, you can keep it, unless you have great benefits," Lindsay McLaughlin, legislative director for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, told CBSNews.com.

Employers are taking a number of steps to lower their cost of coverage ahead of the tax's implementation, Wojcik said, such as stepping up wellness programs, narrowing provider networks, encouraging the use of non-physician health care providers for basic care and increasing cost sharing.

"If employees have more cost sharing not in terms of premiums, then they're more mindful when they access health care to choose a more efficient provider or say, 'You know, I don't need to go to the doctor every time I have a cough," Wojcik explained.

In exchange for cutting benefits, employers should in theory compensate workers with higher wages, Van de Water said.

McLaughlin said his organization is skeptical of that theory. Furthermore, he said, that's beside the point -- employees want good benefits. Whenever the ILWU negotiates a contract he said, its members always prioritize a strong benefits package.

"For as long as I've been working here, no takeaways on health and welfare benefits seems to be at the top of the list," he said. "I don't buy the argument our members are over-utilizing the system... I don't know many people who enjoy sitting in doctors' offices."

When Trader Joe's decided to eliminate health insurance for part-time employees, the company said it would instead cut those workers a $500 check. Wojcik said he hasn't seen any other evidence so far of employers substituting higher wages for health benefits.

[cobl04]

New U.S. rules require equal insurance coverage for mental ills | Reuters

[mama cass]

i thought this was absolutely brilliant!

Occupy Wall Street activists buy $15m of Americans' personal debt | World news | theguardian.com

A group of Occupy Wall Street activists has bought almost $15m of Americans' personal debt over the last year as part of the Rolling Jubilee project to help people pay off their outstanding credit.

Rolling Jubilee, set up by Occupy's Strike Debt group following the street protests that swept the world in 2011, launched on 15 November 2012. The group purchases personal debt cheaply from banks before "abolishing" it, freeing individuals from their bills.

By purchasing the debt at knockdown prices the group has managed to free $14,734,569.87 of personal debt, mainly medical debt, spending only $400,000.

"We thought that the ratio would be about 20 to 1," said Andrew Ross, a member of Strike Debt and professor of social and cultural analysis at New York University. He said the team initially envisaged raising $50,000, which would have enabled it to buy $1m in debt.

"In fact we've been able to buy debt a lot more cheaply than that."

The group is able to buy debt so cheaply due to the nature of the "secondary debt market". If individuals consistently fail to pay bills from credit cards, loans, or medical insurance the bank or lender that issued the funds will eventually cut its losses by selling that debt to a third party. These sales occur for a fraction of the debt’s true values – typically for five cents on the dollar – and debt-buying companies then attempt to recoup the debt from the individual debtor and thus make a profit.

The Rolling Jubilee project was mostly conceived as a "public education project", Ross said.

"We're under no illusions that $15m is just a tiny drop in the secondary debt market. It doesn't make a dent in the amount of debt.

"Our purpose in doing this, aside from helping some people along the way – there's certainly many, many people who are very thankful that their debts are abolished – our primary purpose was to spread information about the workings of this secondary debt market."

The group has focussed on buying medical debt, and has acquired the $14.7m in three separate purchases, most recently spending $13.5m on medical debt owed by 2,693 people across 45 states and Puerto Rico, Rolling Jubilee said in a press release.

“No one should have to go into debt or bankruptcy because they get sick,” said Laura Hanna, an organiser with the group. Hanna said 62% of all personal bankruptcies have medical debt as a contributing factor.

Due to the nature of the debt market, the group is unable to specify whose debt it purchases, taking on the amounts before it discovers individuals’ identities. When Rolling Jubilee has bought the debt they send notes to their debtors “telling them they’re off the hook”, Ross said.

Ross, whose book, Creditocracy and the case for debt refusal, outlines the problems of the debt industry and calls for a “debtors’ movement” to resist credit, said the group had received letters from people whose debt they had lifted thanking them for the service. But the real victory was in spreading knowledge of the nature of the debt industry, he said.

"Very few people know how cheaply their debts have been bought by collectors. It changes the psychology of the debtor, knowing this.

“So when you get called up by the debt collector, and you're being asked to pay the full amount of your debt, you now know that the debt collector has bought your debt very, very cheaply. As cheaply as we bought it. And that gives you moral ammunition to have a different conversation with the debt collector."

[Irvine511]

some numbers on "the best healthcare system in the world":

In 2013, more than one-third (37%) of U.S. adults went without recommended care, did not see a doctor when they were sick, or failed to fill prescriptions because of costs, compared with as few as 4 percent to 6 percent in the United Kingdom and Sweden.

Roughly 40 percent of both insured and uninsured U.S. respondents spent $1,000 or more out-of-pocket during the year on medical care, not counting premiums. High deductibles and cost-sharing, along with no limits on out-of-pocket costs, may explain why even insured people in the U.S. struggled to afford needed health care, the researchers said.

Nearly one-quarter (23%) of U.S. adults either had serious problems paying medical bills or were unable to pay them, compared with fewer than 13 percent of adults in the next-highest country, France, and 6 percent or fewer in the U.K., Sweden, and Norway.

About one of three (32%) U.S. adults spent a lot of time dealing with insurance paperwork and disputes or were either denied payment for a claim or paid less than expected. Only 25 percent of adults in Switzerland, 19 percent in the Netherlands, and 17 percent in Germany—all countries with competitive health insurance markets—reported these problems. U.S. insurers spent $606 per person on administrative costs, more than twice the amount in the next-highest country. Such high costs result from a complex, fragmented insurance system, the researchers write.

The vast majority (75%) of U.S. adults said their health system needs to undergo fundamental changes or be rebuilt completely.

The U.S. spends $8,508 per person on health care. That is nearly $3,000 more per person than Norway, the second-highest spender.

Access, Affordability, and Insurance Complexity Are Often Worse in the United States Compared to 10 Other Countries - The Commonwealth Fund

we spend more and get less.

(health care) socialism now!

[Dfit00]

Originally Posted by anitram

It was the best in the world if you are in the top say 3-5%.

For everyone else, it's far below what your neighbours to the north have and what the Europeans have and the Australians have. Many Americans just are unable to understand and/or admit this.

Most people on this thread would NEVER have the benefit of the "best healthcare in the world." That's reserved for people several socioeconomic rungs above.

You know I have driven all over Lagos and I think it's actually very beautiful.

[INDY500]

Saying "we fumbled the rollout," President Barack Obama announced a fix to the vexing problem of canceled health insurance policies Thursday. He told insurers they don’t have to cancel plans next year just because of the Affordable Care Act.

Insurers can continue the plans for 2014 on two conditions — they have to tell people what their plans don’t cover, and they have to let people know they do have the option of going onto the health insurance exchanges to buy new plans with federal government subsidies and perhaps go onto Medicaid.

"Insurers can extend current plans that otherwise would have been canceled in 2014," Obama said.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration sneaked in a rule that would let some labor unions off the hook for an ObamaCare tax.
After publicly rejecting the unions’ request for an exemption, the Department of Health and Human Services last week quietly gave the unions a pass on what would have been a massive tax hit.
The tax, known as the reinsurance fee, requires self-insured organizations, such as unions and some large companies, to pay $63 for each covered member and an additional $63 for each additional family member on a health plan.

"It's the law of the land"*


* details and conditions subject to change by executive fiat for political purposes.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Dfit00

You know I have driven all over Lagos and I think it's actually very beautiful.

?

[nbcrusader]

Originally Posted by INDY500

"It's the law of the land"*


* details and conditions subject to change by executive fiat for political purposes.

And only be executive fiat. A house bill to fulfill Obama's "fix" to cover Obama's lie was met with a promise of a veto.

[nbcrusader]

Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.

Good think the President forced a government shutdown to keep his law in place.

[BoMac]

This

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.

AND THIS

just 7 percent said the Affordable Care Act should be left in place without any changes.

is not the same thing, and to suggest otherwise would be flat out false. And you know it.

No one ever said the ACA is perfect, and that poll number indicates that. People want to see it improved, rather than repeal it completely.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

Only 7% of Americans want to keep Obamacare in place.

Good think the President forced a government shutdown to keep his law in place.

I don't recall you being so prone to wildly inaccurate statements in the past. Both of these statements are flat out false. BoMac pointed out the first, and I simply cannot see how anyone with an interest in objectivity could make the claim that it was the President who forced the shutdown.

How disappointing.

[BVS]

It's the Drudge effect...

[PhilsFan]

You know, when I started posting in FYM people spoke of the good ol' days when there were legitimate conservative arguments on this board and often cited posters like NBCrusader as one of the best examples. But I haven't noticed much of a sea change with his return. Is there something different in the posting style or was it simply romanticizing the past? Genuinely curious, since I wasn't around for the first stint.

[AEON]

NBCrusader is an intelligent, thoughtful contributor. His absence was certainly felt. Like all of us, he can sometimes post a small quip/meme/headline here and there to get the conversation rolling. He is also capable a few paragraphs of insight when called upon to do so.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

You know, when I started posting in FYM people spoke of the good ol' days when there were legitimate conservative arguments on this board and often cited posters like NBCrusader as one of the best examples. But I haven't noticed much of a sea change with his return. Is there something different in the posting style or was it simply romanticizing the past? Genuinely curious, since I wasn't around for the first stint.

I remember NBCrusader as being good, nice and a gentleman. He didn't seem obsessed with despising liberals nor did he lean toward trollish behavior by frequently posting links about how America was headed in the wrong direction. I also do not remember him ever being condescending toward anyone for any reason. In fact, he was the antithesis of condescending behavior and was the nice one if anyone was harsh to him. Now he's a very different person. It's disappointing and bewildering.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by AEON

NBCrusader is an intelligent, thoughtful contributor. His absence was certainly felt. Like all of us, he can sometimes post a small quip/meme/headline here and there to get the conversation rolling. He is also capable a few paragraphs of insight when called upon to do so.

He was. I haven't seen that since his return.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Pearl

He was. I haven't seen that since his return.

I don't know - I've seen some great posts (even if I didn't agree with them).

Some of these headline type of posts do have that "lone voice in the Wilderness" sense to them, but I think that's to be expected. It's exhausting going against the grain in every single thread...

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by AEON

I don't know - I've seen some great posts (even if I didn't agree with them).

Some of these headline type of posts do have that "lone voice in the Wilderness" sense to them, but I think that's to be expected. It's exhausting going against the grain in every single thread...

NB sounds more like a disgruntled Tea Party supporter to me. And he has made comments toward some posters that were very harsh, totally unlike the NB I remember.

NB, since you will read this, I just hope I can see that kind person again. It's not pleasant to see someone lose their shining quality.

I'll say no more, because this is discussion isn't cool and NB isn't here now to speak for himself. Enough for me.