Make Fatherhood a Man's Choice

[anitram]

I was gonna say, lol.

[Party Boy]

I'll have to ask my parents if I was raised with greater social permission. I'll check in with my 3 sisters to see if they agree...

[chork]

I believe what the Jeevster is speaking of may be the social construction that also implies that a man with a drive to succeed is simply a man, whereas a woman with an equal drive to succeed is often considered a ballbuster.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by chork

I believe what the Jeevster is speaking of may be the social construction that also implies that a man with a drive to succeed is simply a man, whereas a woman with an equal drive to succeed is often considered a ballbuster.

She may, but she's made broad, mindboggling generalizations regarding gender issues in the past. It's hard to even consider what she's saying because of that.

[bono_212]

I just want to know where she lives that is so outside the biased custody norm. I find this quite remarkable.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Pearl

She may, but she's made broad, mindboggling generalizations regarding gender issues in the past. It's hard to even consider what she's saying because of that.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail

[jeevey]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I just want to know where she lives that is so outside the biased custody norm. I find this quite remarkable.

It boggles me too, to tell the truth. I know of several women who did the sole raising of the children before divorce who ended up with every other weekend visitation rights- supervised, in some cases!- after formerly absent dads got very proactive in court. Fifty/fifty is totally the norm- I don't know of any cases where the dad has less than that unless he lives far away or is a convicted child molester (and even that guy has every other weekend with his kid.) I've really wondered about this pattern, and the only sense I can make of it is that the courts are rewarding the person who demonstrates through litigation that they want the child the most, regardless of their motivations.

Anyway, I think chork was right about what I'm trying to say. Broadly speaking, competitiveness and assertiveness are praised in men and boys, but they are not rewarded as much for cooperation and peacekeeping. And the reverse is true for women. This doesn't mean that there are no competitive women or conflict-avoidant men, or that there are no controlling women or exploited men. It means that in court custody situation, I think that men are more likely to be comfortable with pressing for a settlement that they know will create conflict with the other parent. I've seen a lot of women make very generous offers in order to make sure the kid stays close to the dad, to keep the peace or because they don't believe they can win a fight for greater custody.

I'll also say that I think in my area it's more common than the national norm for women to be at home or minimally employed when kids are little. And the ability to pay a real family lawyer makes such a huge difference in how things get settled.

[Pearl]

Jeevey, where do you live? Are you in the United States? If so, what part?

[jeevey]

I'm in New England. It's been this way around here for a long time. 50% was the norm when my parents were separated in the early 90s. Back then it was usually one week at one parents house followed by a week at the other. Now it's usually some mad thing like 2 nights at one place and one in the other, or Monday morning through Friday after school at one, if the parents happen to live in different school districts. I actually don't think I've ever known anyone who didn't have 50% as the default arrangement. It takes very serious litigation to get anything else around here.

[MrPryck2U]

From my experiences in NY, the mother usually gets residential custody and the father gets the kids every other weekend. Depends on how contentious the relationship is.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by MrPryck2U

From my experiences in NY, the mother usually gets residential custody and the father gets the kids every other weekend. Depends on how contentious the relationship is.

That's what I know too. I think it's more of a legal issue than which gender is more willing to fight for custody.

[MrPryck2U]

I guess returning to the concept of the thread, in NY when the woman discovers she's pregnant and tells the "father", his only recourse is to beg/convince her to get an abortion. Otherwise, he has no choice in the matter if the woman decides to have the child.

Obviously his choice should be to make sure he doesn't get one passed the goalie in the first place.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by MrPryck2U

Obviously his choice should be to make sure he doesn't get one passed the goalie in the first place.

aye

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by jeevey

I'm in New England. It's been this way around here for a long time. 50% was the norm when my parents were separated in the early 90s. Back then it was usually one week at one parents house followed by a week at the other. Now it's usually some mad thing like 2 nights at one place and one in the other, or Monday morning through Friday after school at one, if the parents happen to live in different school districts. I actually don't think I've ever known anyone who didn't have 50% as the default arrangement. It takes very serious litigation to get anything else around here.

I grew up in New England. I think you're painting with way, way, way too broad a brush.

[jeevey]

I'm just talking about what I've seen, in my local area. It may be totally different elsewhere.

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by MrPryck2U

Obviously his choice should be to make sure he doesn't get one passed the goalie in the first place.

That's pretty much a very important choice there. I don't know many women who would say "noo, noo not safe tonight, I don't want that!"