Joseph Lowery's Racist Prayer

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I was startled when I watched it to see that Warren wasn't even trying to be nondenominational with his invocation, because that's the expected standard for public events. If you're going to have a prayer on such an occasion, it ain't that hard to compose a nice nondenominational one.

Are you correct?

that is how I remember it too.

it appears some have no Jesus,
some have a little


most do not have as much Jesus as Warren piled on

Presidential Inaugural Prayers and Sermons of Billy and Franklin Graham - 1989 Invocation

Presidential Inaugural Prayers and Sermons of Billy and Franklin Graham - 1993 Inaugural Invocation


Presidential Inaugural Prayers and Sermons of Billy and Franklin Graham - 2001 Inaugural Invocation


most are available here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaugural_ceremony_prayers_(US_presidential)
 
i'm sure Warren thought he was being brave and bold and audacious. you know, unafraid to love that Rebel from Nazareth in the face of growing secularity and a world that's hostile to Christians and all that self-serving stuff. :shrug:
 
i'm sure Warren thought he was being brave and bold and audacious. you know, unafraid to love that Rebel from Nazareth in the face of growing secularity and a world that's hostile to Christians and all that self-serving stuff. :shrug:

i know very little about rick warren, but maybe, just maybe he really does loves the "rebel from nazareth" about anything else and thats all he was thinking.


who knows, maybe i am just too naive.
 
no. if you really meant no sarcasm by you remark, i am sorry. its hard to tell sometimes.


You don't owe me an apology. I was asking a question, but I may have been a smart-ass about it. :angel:

I really do find it interesting that when Christians are trying to be tolerant in the face of a fellow Christian's intolerance and exclusion, they usually invoke Buddha. I suspect it's because they feel it's an inoffensive reference and not quite as loaded as invoking Allah, which may actually offend the Christian using the reference.
 
i'm sure Warren thought he was being brave and bold and audacious. you know, unafraid to love that Rebel from Nazareth in the face of growing secularity and a world that's hostile to Christians and all that self-serving stuff. :shrug:

Maybe he can see the writing on the wall :shifty: and knows that the days of Christians writing US policy are numbered. Maybe he felt that he's going out, he's going out fighting.
 
I really do find it interesting that when Christians are trying to be tolerant in the face of a fellow Christian's intolerance and exclusion, they usually invoke Buddha. I suspect it's because they feel it's an inoffensive reference and not quite as loaded as invoking Allah, which may actually offend the Christian using the reference.

interesting, i had never heard anyone use buddha as an example before, and
i have never used buddha as an example until this thread (was just off the top of my head). i really have no idea, neither are offensive to me.
 
i know very little about rick warren, but maybe, just maybe he really does loves the "rebel from nazareth" about anything else and thats all he was thinking.


who knows, maybe i am just too naive.




Warren has books to sell. he loves much more than that "rebel from nazareth." which is an FYM inside joke, btw.

i'm fairly confident that his deliberate mentioning of Jesus in not one, not two, but four languages and then the recitation of the Lord's Prayer was meant to be a show of strength to his customers supporters.
 
I think a prayer like that spits on the policy of separating church from state.
 
Warren has books to sell. he loves much more than that "rebel from nazareth." which is an FYM inside joke, btw.

i'm fairly confident that his deliberate mentioning of Jesus in not one, not two, but four languages and then the recitation of the Lord's Prayer was meant to be a show of strength to his customers supporters.

wow. that is pretty cynical. i'm glad to know that FYM, has decided who is sincere and who is not.

like i said, i know very little about rick warren, how he spends his money, or how many books he sells. maybe he is a false 'profit'. i don't have a clue.

so if you sell a book you can't be sincere about your beliefs? or is there a just a cut off, that once you sell a certain number or make a certain amout of money, then you are no longer sincere?

what if all the money you make from the books you give away (i'm not talking about rick warren)? then you can still be sincere?
 
I told a buddy of mine once that, while I practice Catholicism, I'm much closer to Athiesm (or at least Agnosticism) than I am to Catholicism. He replied, "How do you get up in the morning?" And he was completely serious.

There was a time when religion did a lot of good, I believe However, I no longer believe it does anymore good than it does bad.
 
wow. that is pretty cynical. i'm glad to know that FYM, has decided who is sincere and who is not.

like i said, i know very little about rick warren, how he spends his money, or how many books he sells. maybe he is a false 'profit'. i don't have a clue.

so if you sell a book you can't be sincere about your beliefs? or is there a just a cut off, that once you sell a certain number or make a certain amout of money, then you are no longer sincere?

what if all the money you make from the books you give away (i'm not talking about rick warren)? then you can still be sincere?



firstly, i speak for me, not for FYM.

do you know anything about Rick Warren? perhaps you should go and read the thread on him.

the only positive thing i can say is that he is a step up from Falwell and Robertson and Dobson.

Rick Warren is not Bono. not even close.
 
it would be a better country, and world, if he were to become the face of American Christianity rather than Fallwell, Robertson, Dobson and, yes, W.

sounds like a very admirable person. you're lucky to have him so close.

just browsing the threads in here, by searching for his name. this is a quote from you (irvine511). it was in response to a thread that says he tithes 90% and doesn't take a salary from his church.

what am i missing? i didn't see his name in any thread titles.

is it you don't agree with his theology, or is there something shady in his past that makes you think he is all about money? honest question, all i know about him is he has a huge church and wrote purpose drive life.
 
just browsing the threads in here, by searching for his name. this is a quote from you (irvine511). it was in response to a thread that says he tithes 90% and doesn't take a salary from his church.

what am i missing? i didn't see his name in any thread titles.

is it you don't agree with his theology, or is there something shady in his past that makes you think he is all about money? honest question, all i know about him is he has a huge church and wrote purpose drive life.

He is for traditional marriage, therefore in FYM he is despised.

<>
 
I thought the Our Father was ridiculous, as were his repeated invocations of Jesus. These prayers are usually generic, but this one appealed to nobody outside of Christians.

Oh, for the love of pete.

First of all, government didn't endorse religion. Obama didn't pray to Jesus. Rick Warren did -- a conservative, evangelical pastor, who was invited by Obama, who shares a common Christianity, particularly when it comes to issues of global poverty and public health issues. Warren was asked to serve a particular function, which he served. His prayer was addressed to "Almighty God, our Father," which is a pretty generic term for God that Catholics, Muslims, Jews and Christians (who together constitute over 90% of Americans) generally pray in a form of. It was only at the end of the prayer that Warren referenced Jesus -- incidentally doing so by saying, "I pray this in the name of the man who changed my life" -- making the prayer specific to him. Sure, he used several different culturally-relevant usages of Jesus' name, but it was a singular reference at the end of a prayer that was well over five minutes long. (Even the "Our Father" doesn't reference Jesus' name.) In any event, he's allowed to do so -- both as a pastor and as a private citizen.

For pity's sake, can anyone remember Billy Graham's inaugural prayer from 1993, when he specifically prayed about how we as a nation had turned our backs on God and we needed to repent and turn back to Him? I would think that would be a much more offensive prayer.

And for those viewers counting at home, Billy Graham referenced Jesus in 2001, too.
 
For pity's sake, can anyone remember Billy Graham's inaugural prayer from 1993, when he specifically prayed about how we as a nation had turned our backs on God and we needed to repent and turn back to Him? I would think that would be a much more offensive prayer.

And for those viewers counting at home, Billy Graham referenced Jesus in 2001, too.

Just because Billy Graham was offensive (and he was), doesn't mean Warren wasn't.

They BOTH were.
 
i've thought inviting Warren was a mistake from the beginning, and he lived up to why i thought it was a mistake. it's less that my belief system -- or lack of a belief system -- was threatened or offended, and more that i felt his direct prayer to Jesus was offensive to a multicultural society.

On the other hand, isn't his prayer to Jesus something that we should celebrate in a multicultural society? Was it wrong for President Obama to get up and declare his vision of the future and not some hodgepodge collective vision of it? No. Of course not. Our country is great because we allow for the sharing of ideas.

Let's stop trying to use the term "multicultural" as an intellectual prison. It simply doesn't mean that we all move to the safe middle in our ideas or practices. It means that we ALL strive to understand and coexist with those that don't share them with us.
 
just browsing the threads in here, by searching for his name. this is a quote from you (irvine511). it was in response to a thread that says he tithes 90% and doesn't take a salary from his church.



i believe i was talking about Wallis.
 
Oh, for the love of pete.

First of all, government didn't endorse religion. Obama didn't pray to Jesus. Rick Warren did -- a conservative, evangelical pastor, who was invited by Obama, who shares a common Christianity, particularly when it comes to issues of global poverty and public health issues. Warren was asked to serve a particular function, which he served. His prayer was addressed to "Almighty God, our Father," which is a pretty generic term for God that Catholics, Muslims, Jews and Christians (who together constitute over 90% of Americans) generally pray in a form of. It was only at the end of the prayer that Warren referenced Jesus -- incidentally doing so by saying, "I pray this in the name of the man who changed my life" -- making the prayer specific to him. Sure, he used several different culturally-relevant usages of Jesus' name, but it was a singular reference at the end of a prayer that was well over five minutes long. (Even the "Our Father" doesn't reference Jesus' name.) In any event, he's allowed to do so -- both as a pastor and as a private citizen.

For pity's sake, can anyone remember Billy Graham's inaugural prayer from 1993, when he specifically prayed about how we as a nation had turned our backs on God and we needed to repent and turn back to Him? I would think that would be a much more offensive prayer.

And for those viewers counting at home, Billy Graham referenced Jesus in 2001, too.



all good reasons why the Warren invitation was a bad idea. :up:

Rev. Robinson did the job, and did the job well.

i wonder how we'd react if someone stood on the steps of the capital and chanted, "Namu-myoho-renge-kyo."
 
incidentally doing so by saying, "I pray this in the name of the man who changed my life" -- making the prayer specific to him.

Of course he made it all about him, I expected a 1-800 number to be tacked on at the end.
 
it seems that some people want me to be offended because, 1) a christian was asked to lead the prayer, or that 2) Warren was "unashamed" to be a christian, or 3) that Warren talked about his God and prayed to that God. sadly, none of that is true.

at first, i found it offensive because i thought it was rude and disrespectful to others, and thinking about it a bit more, i find it offensive that he'd choose such an occasion to make such an occasion about himself.

but i suppose this is what modern evangelism is all about -- narcissism. granted, i totally prefer that to the fear and loathing of the fading Dr. Dobson and his ilk, but it's still not a flattering picture of contemporary conservative evangelicals.

i'm glad Obama atoned in his address.
 
Saying the word Jesus a couple times? Cool.

Reciting the whole Our Father prayer? Way over the top for me.

I wasn't offended, but I was quite uncomfortable through the whole thing. And that was disappointing.
 
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