It's time for a dissenters' caucus

[anitram]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

As I said, there are good people in politics, I believe Obama wants to make real changes but unless it can be shown to me how he does it without becoming a turd or douche like all the rest, then I'll continue in my "cynical" way.

Honestly I find this type of cynicism to be silly in a way because it can be applied to pretty much every profession out there. Politicians are in the public eye, so they catch all the flak. But this is really a bottom up production, the corporate society we live in and a lot contributes to it. So I guess your view would have to be that all public officials and pretty much all managers/directors in the corporate world are turds, anyone in any kind of supervisory/managerial role is a turd cog in the system...

We blame them, but what we have is an incredibly inert, lazy, intellectually uncurious and undemanding middle class which doesn't care about anything except themselves most of the time. So long as they have a McMansion out in the burbs and a couple of cars in the driveway and can buy cheap toilet paper at Walmart, everything is hunkey dorey regardless of the fact it's all built on a house of cards.

So no, I don't think Obama and McCain are turds, I think they are just a reflection of most of the rest of us. Maybe we should take a long look in the mirror before railing on the political world.

[A_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by toscano

Do you think the US would be in Iraq right now if Kerry had won ?

Yes, the Democrats would not let themselves be the party that lost Iraq.

[toscano]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

Yes, the Democrats would not let themselves be the party that lost Iraq.

My bad - Allow me to rephrase the question: Do you think if the Dems had won in 2000 that Iraq would have been invaded in the first place ?

[A_Wanderer]

A decade of brutal sanctions and bombings was justified on the basis of Saddam's WMD stockpiles, so assuming that it wasn't some sort of a frame-up orchestrated from the end of the Gulf War it isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Going by the campaigning in 2000 I would think Gore more likely. Of course it might have been done differently.