Israel attacks Gaza

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GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Israeli airstrikes pounded targets in Gaza on Saturday, killing at least 170 people, Palestinian medical sources said. An Israeli army spokeswoman said her country is ready to continue the attacks "as long as it takes."

A Palestinian boy wounded by an Israeli missile awaits treatment Saturday outside a hospital in Gaza City.

Palestinian medical sources said 110 people were hospitalized in Gaza in serious to critical condition. Earlier Saturday, the sources said at least 250 people had been wounded in the raids.

The militant group Hamas, which controls the government in Gaza, vowed to retaliate.

The strikes followed several days of rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel.

Hamas police stations were hit, killing many senior police commanders, a reporter in Gaza said.

Maj. Gen. Tawfeeq Al-Jaber, a senior commander in the Hamas police force, was killed, as was Ismail Jabari, who headed the special police force in Gaza, Palestinian sources said.

Israeli Maj. Avital Leibovich told CNN the military began the attacks "in order to preserve the security situation in Israel."

"We are prepared for any type of scenario right now. We have our own operation and assessments as we go along, and we are ready to continue this operation as long as it takes," Leibovich said by phone from Tel Aviv. Watch panicked Palestinians try to help the wounded

Not long after Hamas called for retribution, an Israeli woman was killed when a rocket fired from Gaza hit a house in Netivot, about six miles east of Gaza, Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld said. Hamas acknowledged firing the rocket.

Two other Israelis were listed in "medium to serious" condition at a hospital in Bersheba, Rosenfeld said.

The Israeli Defense Ministry issued a statement saying Prime Minister Ehud Olmert ordered the military into action based on a decision by the Cabinet.

"The action will continue and will widen as much as is demanded according to the evaluation of the situation by the high command of the army," the statement said.

Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, speaking from Ramallah in the West Bank, accused Israel of ignoring the terms of the tenuous six-month cease-fire that expired a week ago.

"This is certainly a very cruel escalation, a relentless bombardment of a captive civilian population that has already been under siege for months, that has been deprived of basic requirements like food and medicines and fuel and power," she said. Watch Ashrawi condemn the airstrikes »

The Arab League scheduled an emergency meeting in Cairo, Egypt, at 7 p.m. (noon ET) Sunday to discuss the outbreak of violence.

White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe called on Hamas to cease its rocket attacks on Israel and urged Israel "to avoid civilian casualties as it targets Hamas in Gaza."

A statement from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said Israeli aircraft attacked "a series of Hamas targets and infrastructure facilities."

"The Air Force activity came as a result of the continuation of terror activity by Hamas terror organization from the Gaza Strip, and the duration of rocket launching and targeting Israeli civilians," the IDF statement said.

Video showed severely wounded people being loaded into cars and driven to hospitals.

Inside one Gaza hospital, doctors appeared overwhelmed; the floors were covered with wounded men and some children.

"Many killed and many injured," a Gaza-based reporter said. "People are running in the streets."

The Egyptian government sent 20 ambulances, along with medical personnel, to Rafah at its border with Gaza to help with the wounded, an Egyptian official said.

The reporter, who is not being named for safety reasons, said the attacks were the biggest he had seen in his decades in Gaza.

The IDF said the targets "include Hamas terror operatives that operated from the organization's headquarters, training camps and weaponry storage warehouses."

The shaky six-month truce between the Hamas government in Gaza and Israel expired a week ago. Under the Egyptian-brokered deal, Hamas agreed to end militant attacks on Israel from Gaza, and Israel agreed to halt raids inside the territory and ease its blockade on humanitarian goods.

Israel on Friday opened three border crossings for the first time in 10 days to allow food, medical supplies and other humanitarian goods into Gaza, but Palestinian rocket attacks continued.
 
The traditional dick swinging between the extremists on both sides continues, and as usual, the innocent pay the price.
 
"If you want to kick the tiger in his ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth."

That's what Tom Clancy says, anyway.
 
After 50 years of pacifism and tolerance, I am interested and intrigued by this new strategy of violent reprisal Israel is employing.

Surely, faced with this response the Palestinian people's inevitable revolt against Hamas will come any moment now. (along with a Western-style liberal democracy)
 
Israel is a terrorist nation.

Well said. The mainstream US media is always kissing butt to the Zionists. There are lots of Jews who are critical of Israel, but all of America is made to think they are anti-semites like the Nazis if they criticize it. All the US media outlets state that the Israeli attacks are "in response to" Hamas' attacks. However, Israel has violated every cease-fire by going after Hamas members. They are the ones who have violated agreements. Second, Hamas has told Jimmy Carter it is willing to recognize Israel in an interrim way to create peace; it cannot accept Israel permanently because then it will have no recourse for action. Third, Hamas is only 27 years old! It's time the US and Israeli media stop blaming Hamas for every act of terrorism. Israel has done plenty of dehumanizing, criminal things for decades before Hamas entered the picture.

What we have -- even among news men like PBS' David Brancaccio -- is apologies for Israeli terrorism and a kind of disgust for Muslim terrorism. Israel gets carte blanche because Muslims have to pay for the crimes of Hitler and the West's cowardice before and during WWII, apparently.

Enough.
After 50 years of pacifism and tolerance, I am interested and intrigued by this new strategy of violent reprisal Israel is employing.

Surely, faced with this response the Palestinian people's inevitable revolt against Hamas will come any moment now. (along with a Western-style liberal democracy)

Israel was founded on terrorism -- killing and ethnically cleansing Palestinians and bombing UN workers. This is the same old strategy Israel has been using since its inception and American helicopters and arms allow them to do this and America shares responsibility for this. So, Americans had better remember this the next time a terrorist wants to attack America.
 
This war could end, if we wanted it to.

I doubt those in power, however, have any real interest in solutions that will end the violence. That's why we have a trade embargo against Cuba.
 
What pisses me out the most about this is the lack of coverage by American media on this issue. When the Bombay attacks happened, about the same number of people died, it was talked about nonstop for the next few days. I understand it's the same old Israel killing innocent Palestinians but a mass murdering of people is appalling in any situation.

And it pisses me off how everytime this happens the American government uses some sort of excuse to not place blame on Israel while the American people just turn a blind eye to that. Wake up people!! America has always been in bed with the terrorist government of Israel. At the very least the should place equal blame on both sides.

Either way, in the end our opinions aren't important as much as our peace & prayers to the innocent people who've had to, and are currently suffering through this war
 
Its disproportionate force, but does that render Hamas meek and mild?
Egypt on Sunday blamed Hamas for not letting hundreds of Palestinians wounded by Israeli air strikes leave the Gaza Strip for treatment, with dozens of empty ambulances waiting on the border.

More than 270 Palestinians have been killed and 600 wounded since Israel began hammering the Gaza Strip with air strikes on Saturday, but no wounded have yet left via Rafah, the Hamas-ruled territory's only Arab border crossing.

"No one has come in, we don't know why they're closed on the other side," a senior border security official told AFP. Several plane- and truck-loads of aid are also waiting to be allowed into the Gaza Strip, a security official said.

"The wounded are barred from crossing" into Egypt, Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit said in Cairo, blaming "those who control Gaza. We are waiting for the wounded to cross."

In the divided town of Rafah, the road leading to the border crossing was lined with 20 riot police vehicles, an AFP correspondent reported, with 40 ambulances and several pick-ups full of medicine waiting to cross into Gaza.

"We are preparing a list of casualties. There are just so many dead and injured," Dr Mouneer al-Borsh from the Hamas-run health ministry told AFP at the border.
He had arrived at the border with a ministry truck and was waiting to take medical supplies into Gaza.

Asked when the wounded would arrive at the border, Borsh said: "I don't know when. I can't say."

An Egyptian medic said that "sometimes they (Hamas) say they're going to bring people, sometimes they say they're not going to bring people. Now they say they want medical supplies for the wounded."

Gaza has been crippled by an Israeli blockade of all but the most essential supplies, with even basic medicines lacking in the impoverished territory. But no emergency medical aid entered on Sunday.

A security official said that an Egyptian plane with 50 doctors on board as well as medical supplies had arrived in nearby El-Arish. Two Qatari aircraft carrying 50 tonnes of medical supplies were waiting at the same airport.

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has also ordered three planeloads of medical aid to the Gaza Strip via Egypt, MENA said, and offered to airlift the wounded.

"The Rafah border crossing was opened by the Egyptians yesterday, but no Hamas people showed up" on the other side, an Israeli military spokesman said.
AFP: Egypt says Hamas not allowing wounded to leave Gaza
 
The extent of coverage devoted to the Mumbai attacks was most likely a one-off, and not likely to be repeated; the 2006 bombings in Mumbai killed many more people but received far less attention. Likewise, more people died from terrorism in Pakistan during the last year than anywhere else in the world; most of those incidents received little to no coverage either. And that's just the terrorist disasters, let alone the ongoing carnage in Congo that we seldom hear about. In print media at least, I'd say that if anything the present attacks on Gaza are getting more coverage than the aforementioned. But I don't watch TV, so I couldn't comment on that coverage.

The looming Knesset elections in Israel are almost certainly the main reason why an attack on this scale is being carried out at this time. Likud is leading in the polls, but both the Kadima and Labor PM candidates are in the present government--as foreign minister and defense minister, respectively--and if this 'goes well' for Israel (whatever that might mean, and they've certainly been reluctant to spell it out), then presumably the hope is that would clear the way for a Kadima-Labor coalition. But even as a cold-blooded political calculation, it's a fool's gamble, since even if it did 'succeed,' the pall it would cast over future negotiations would only be setting the process back further. It's just as likely that the end result might only be to strengthen both Likud and Hamas, thus ratcheting up tensions even more.
 
Financeguy and Muldfeld.....

You are both pathetic little worms who wouldn't know a good thing if it bit you on the behind. I have no idea how you two managed to finish school seeing as both your brains aren't big enough to fill a thimble.....

Your sick, twisted way of thinking is a credit to every terrorist organization in the world and you deserve to be in the Al Qaida hall of fame.



P.S.: there's a point to this post.....
 
Financeguy and Muldfeld.....

You are both pathetic little worms who wouldn't know a good thing if it bit you on the behind. I have no idea how you two managed to finish school seeing as both your brains aren't big enough to fill a thimble.....

Your sick, twisted way of thinking is a credit to every terrorist organization in the world and you deserve to be in the Al Qaida hall of fame.

P.S.: there's a point to this post.....
Ad hominem arguments aren't persuasive, a full scale military assault can't be spun in Israel's favour on the world stage, no matter how justified it is, even when the IDF takes care to minimise civilian casualties (at the expense of its own military personnel) the impression is always that of indiscriminate force being used against wholly innocent civilians (look at Jenin, when the dust eventually settled the casualties shifted from reports of hundreds of dead Palestinians in mass graves to around 60, with some 25 dead Israeli soldiers).
 
Financeguy and Muldfeld.....

You are both pathetic little worms who wouldn't know a good thing if it bit you on the behind. I have no idea how you two managed to finish school seeing as both your brains aren't big enough to fill a thimble.....

Your sick, twisted way of thinking is a credit to every terrorist organization in the world and you deserve to be in the Al Qaida hall of fame.



P.S.: there's a point to this post.....

yes, there is a point there, this post shows who's right and who's wrong, perfect example.

:| sarcasm
 
You are both pathetic little worms who wouldn't know a good thing if it bit you on the behind.

Please go on with this, because I'm having a tough time grasping your concept. I'd love to hear how the deaths of 300 civilians is a good thing. :|

ETA: For the record, financeguy is absolutely right. Israel has been one of the most bloodthirsty nations of the latter half of the twentieth century, and even the most cursory look at the facts proves that. This is a case of terrorists fighting terrorists, and none of them truly wants peace over there. Pathetic. I hope the innocent people of both Palestine and Israel, who are undoubtedly getting sick of constant war and death, shake off their warmongering "governments" and get people in power who are actually willing to recognize the other side, not necessarily as states, but at least as fellow human beings. Sad that that will not happen anytime soon.
 
I hope the innocent people of both Palestine and Israel, who are undoubtedly getting sick of constant war and death, shake off their warmongering "governments" and get people in power who are actually willing to recognize the other side, not necessarily as states, but at least as fellow human beings. Sad that that will not happen anytime soon.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately it won't. The main reason is a mutual lack of trust. A lot of people would happily go or two-state solution if they would have believed the other's side sincere intentions, but few people do. It won't happen in this generation and I'm not so sure about the next one.

As far as the bombings concern – it won't solve anything in the long run. Nothing has really for the last decades. On the other hand – what would you do if cities & towns in your country had been continuously bombed for the last 8 years, and the bombing party denounced your mere existence? Even in times when a cease fire was announced, missiles were fired into Israel territories. It's not a rhetorical question by me – seriously, how would you deal with it? And please don't get all populist about it, it's the easy way.
 
Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent

Monday, 29 December 2008

We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force.

Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.

The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.

By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said.

Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly.

Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do?

Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges.

Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word.

We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level.

Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles.
 
In Lebanon, the leader of the Shiite militant group Hezbollah, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, put his fighters on alert, expressing strong support for Hamas and saying that he believed Israel might try to wage a two-front war, as it did in 2006. He called for a mass demonstration in Beirut on Monday. And he, too, denounced Egypt’s leaders. “If you don’t open the borders, you are accomplices in the killing,” he said in a televised speech.

Wonderful.

I think it's highly disturbing that Israel has kicked out journalists from large areas surrounding Gaza.

Mostly, I'm tired of the Middle East.
 
Well said. The mainstream US media is always kissing butt to the Zionists. There are lots of Jews who are critical of Israel, but all of America is made to think they are anti-semites like the Nazis if they criticize it. All the US media outlets state that the Israeli attacks are "in response to" Hamas' attacks.....

What we have -- even among news men like PBS' David Brancaccio -- is apologies for Israeli terrorism and a kind of disgust for Muslim terrorism. Israel gets carte blanche because Muslims have to pay for the crimes of Hitler and the West's cowardice before and during WWII, apparently.

I take comfort from the fact that surveys have shown that US Jews are more opposed to the Iraq invasion than any other ethnic group - a point that the the neo-conservative ideologues prefer to ignore.

Third, Hamas is only 27 years old! It's time the US and Israeli media stop blaming Hamas for every act of terrorism. Israel has done plenty of dehumanizing, criminal things for decades before Hamas entered the picture.

This is a very good point. Palestinian violence is principally reactive. This point is often missed.

Israel was founded on terrorism -- killing and ethnically cleansing Palestinians and bombing UN workers. This is the same old strategy Israel has been using since its inception and American helicopters and arms allow them to do this and America shares responsibility for this. So, Americans had better remember this the next time a terrorist wants to attack America.

Again, a good point. Americans who complain about Middle Eastern conflicts taking up too much time on their TV screens (perhaps it distracts them from watching Pop Idol, or whatever) would do well to see the interlinkages between the politicians they elect and children being murdered in Gaza by a force of illegal occupation.

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinch were the only two US Presidential candidates with an evenhanded approach to the issue but, unfortunately, they were mostly sidelined by the mainstream media.
 
To financeguy and Muldfeld,

I would like to apologize to you for my harsh words.
I really didn't mean anything I said to you - I wanted to get your response so I could prove a point but it sort of backfired on me and I admit that I was very wrong in using both of you to prove it.

You should know by now that I would never purposely insult anyone on the board who has a different opinion than me - I have deep respect for everyone here, even those who condemm my country.

I will make my case in a different way - I am composing a post that will outline the case for this action.

I do hope you will forgive me. I promise I won't ever provoke another member of this board just to prove a point - that was wrong of me and, again, I apologize.
 
To financeguy and Muldfeld,
.

I am sorry some felt you had to apologize.

I clearly understood your post to be personal towards them-
because you felt their post were personally directed at you,
as you are a frequent poster in here always presenting / and supporting Israeli defense policies

I may not agree with your opinions, but I can not make a better case for mine as I have never been th the Mid-East and can not fully empathize with your situation

I do feel your opinions do contribute to this forum, because yours is a unique perspective.

But, it does seem there is a bit of a "circle the wagons" around regular posters and more popular opinions


it's late, Im tired, I hope I am making some sense here
 
I think everyone here would agree, the situation in the Middle East is a terrible one. I am glad that folks take the time to post different opinions, because it has given me a greater understanding. Hopefully President Elect Obama will be able to help establish a peace agreement that will be embraced by both sides.
 
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