Is Feminism Still Relevant?

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by jimmmm

The Patriarchy Is Dead, Feminists, accept it.
By Hanna Rosin|Posted Wednesday, Sept. 11, 2013, at 11:35 AM

It's true that women don't fill half of all cong

Anyway, it was at this point I got bored with this and ordered my wife to put the kettle on!

[Jive Turkey]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OH jimmmmmmm. Do you have any sandwich based humour for us?

[Vlad n U 2]

I was hoping for something related to cleaning and ironing myself. I hadn't heard one of those in a while.

[jeevey]

One of many responses to the Hanna Rosin article linked above.
The Patriarchy Is Definitely Not Dead

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by jeevey

One of many responses to the Hanna Rosin article linked above. The Patriarchy Is Definitely Not Dead

That's a remarkably personal, mean spirited response.

[jeevey]

From what I gather, Hanna Rosin is quite a polarizing figure. She has a bit of a reputation as an antifeminist apologist in sheep's clothing, and people tend to have strong reactions to her work one way or another.

[Pearl]

A comedy group in Bollywood is tackling India's rape culture with satire:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8hC0Ng_ajpY

As they say on their YouTube channel:

Every sexual assault case in India inspires a string of stupid and hateful remarks against women. This is our response to those remarks.

I think its great that these women are taking a stand against the attitude towards rape in their country, which is also the attitude many have in other countries, even in the U.S., Europe, Canada...oh hell, all over the world.

ETA: I'm trying to get the actual video to be posted, not a link. Hold on...grrrr!

[Irvine511]

not to relive the Miley Cyrus VMA debacle, but she's said that she modeled her partially great, partially embarrassing "wrecking ball" video on "nothing compares 2 U."

this is the rather awesome response from Sinead to Ms. Cyrus, and it ties in notions of patriarchy and power and sexual exploitation that have come up in this thread:

Dear Miley,

I wasn’t going to write this letter, but today i’ve been dodging phone calls from various newspapers who wished me to remark upon your having said in Rolling Stone your Wrecking Ball video was designed to be similar to the one for Nothing Compares… So this is what I need to say… And it is said in the spirit of motherliness and with love.

I am extremely concerned for you that those around you have led you to believe, or encouraged you in your own belief, that it is in any way ‘cool’ to be naked and licking sledgehammers in your videos. It is in fact the case that you will obscure your talent by allowing yourself to be pimped, whether its the music business or yourself doing the pimping.

Nothing but harm will come in the long run, from allowing yourself to be exploited, and it is absolutely NOT in ANY way an empowerment of yourself or any other young women, for you to send across the message that you are to be valued (even by you) more for your sexual appeal than your obvious talent.

I am happy to hear I am somewhat of a role model for you and I hope that because of that you will pay close attention to what I am telling you.

The music business doesn’t give a shit about you, or any of us. They will prostitute you for all you are worth, and cleverly make you think its what YOU wanted.. and when you end up in rehab as a result of being prostituted, ‘they’ will be sunning themselves on their yachts in Antigua, which they bought by selling your body and you will find yourself very alone.

None of the men oggling you give a shit about you either, do not be fooled. Many’s the woman mistook lust for love. If they want you sexually that doesn’t mean they give a fuck about you. All the more true when you unwittingly give the impression you don’t give much of a fuck about yourself. And when you employ people who give the impression they don’t give much of a fuck about you either. No one who cares about you could support your being pimped.. and that includes you yourself.

Yes, I’m suggesting you don’t care for yourself. That has to change. You ought be protected as a precious young lady by anyone in your employ and anyone around you, including you. This is a dangerous world. We don’t encourage our daughters to walk around naked in it because it makes them pray [sic] for animals and less than animals (a distressing majority of whom work in the music industry and the associated media).

You are worth more than your body or your sexual appeal. The world of showbiz doesn’t see things that way, they like things to be seen the other way, whether they are magazines who want you on their cover, or whatever.. Don’t be under any illusions.. ALL of them want you because they’re making money off your youth and your beauty.. which they could not do except for the fact your youth makes you blind to the evils of show business. If you have an innocent heart you can’t recognise those who do not.

I repeat, you have enough talent that you don’t need to let the music business make a prostitute of you. You shouldn’t let them make a fool of you either. Don’t think for a moment that any of them give a flying fuck about you. They’re there for the money.. we’re there for the music. It has always been that way and it will always be that way. The sooner a young lady gets to know that, the sooner she can be REALLY in control.

You also said in Rolling Stone that your look is based on mine. The look I chose, I chose on purpose at a time when my record company were encouraging me to do what you have done. I felt I would rather be judged on my talent and not my looks. I am happy that I made that choice, not least because I do not find myself on the proverbial rag heap now that I am almost 47 yrs of age.. which unfortunately many female artists who have based their image around their sexuality, end up on when they reach middle age.

Real empowerment of yourself as a woman would be to in future refuse to exploit your body or your sexuality in order for men to make money from you. I needn’t even ask the question.. I’ve been in the business long enough to know that men are making more money than you are from you getting naked. Its really not at all cool. And its sending dangerous signals to other young women. Please in future say no when you are asked to prostitute yourself. Your body is for you and your boyfriend. It isn’t for every spunk-spewing dirtbag on the net, or every greedy record company executive to buy his mistresses diamonds with.

As for the shedding of the Hannah Montana image.. whoever is telling you getting naked is the way to do that does absolutely NOT respect your talent, or you as a young lady. Your records are good enough for you not to need any shedding of Hannah Montana. She’s waaaaaaay gone by now.. Not because you got naked but because you make great records.

Whether we like it or not, us females in the industry are role models and as such we have to be extremely careful what messages we send to other women. The message you keep sending is that its somehow cool to be prostituted.. its so not cool Miley.. its dangerous. Women are to be valued for so much more than their sexuality. we aren’t merely objects of desire. I would be encouraging you to send healthier messages to your peers.. that they and you are worth more than what is currently going on in your career. Kindly fire any motherfucker who hasn’t expressed alarm, because they don’t care about you.

Sinead


lgbticons | Sinead O’Conner sends an open letter to Miley Cyrus

i think "wrecking ball" is a surprisingly powerful song, btw.

[Pearl]

Sinead is never afraid to tell it like it is. Gotta love her for that!

I'm all for women owning their sexuality and celebrating it. But I'm sure it is obvious to many that Miley or many other young girls and some women, is reducing herself to nothing but a piece of meat and is using sex to sell her records. There's nothing cool or self-respecting about that.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

not to relive the Miley Cyrus VMA debacle, but she's said that she modeled her partially great, partially embarrassing "wrecking ball" video on "nothing compares 2 U."

this is the rather awesome response from Sinead to Ms. Cyrus, and it ties in notions of patriarchy and power and sexual exploitation that have come up in this thread:

Nice find! Such truth and wisdom. I'm impressed.

[nathan1977]

Love that Sinead letter...read it yesterday. So good.

[Pearl]

Last week my 12-year-old son and his friends used a term I hadn't heard before: "rape face." The next day I saw his buddy tag a photo of himself on Instagram with #rapeface.
So we sat down to talk.
When I asked him to help me understand #rapeface, he was eager to show loads of examples of what a rape face looks like and to explain that it's a hashtag used by all his friends to describe a photo of an "awkward smile." He giggled as he flipped through the images and thought it was hysterical.
I raised the problem of co-opting a word as violent as rape to describe something "hysterical" and he didn't get it. He was emphatic that #rapeface wasn't actually about rape and rolled his eyes with a "mom, what's the big deal?"
My son has grown up with a mother who works in the women's movement and he proactively calls out sexism, initiates discussions about why it's not cool that the most popular song of the summer was about date rape (thanks, Robin Thicke) and he's won prizes for raising money to end violence against women.
So what is the big deal? He and his friends don't literally mean that they want to rape someone by using that hashtag. They are not intentionally trying to make fun of rape. They are 12-year-olds who are just being silly. Lighten up, mom.
But that is precisely why it is a big deal. A very big deal. That 12-year-olds would think it was normal, innocent and even funny to tag a photo of themselves #rapeface goes to the heart of how entrenched rape culture is in our country. Canadian Women's Foundation studies show that victim blame is alive and well in Canada.
It turns out the meme first surfaced in 2008 and was not just about "awkward smiles" but rather to label the expression on the face of a man before he is about to rape a woman. It's intended as a joke and you can find thousands of photos and videos on Instagram, Vine, YouTube and Twitter tagged #rapeface.
But here's the thing, words are powerful. Words have consequences. When a word like rape is used as a joke, it trivializes sexual assault, it normalizes the issue and it creates a climate where rape is accepted. By using a word like rape in colloquial slang, we have become desensitized to its real meaning and that invalidates the experience of the hundreds of thousands of women each year who experience sexual violence.
Intended or not, the insensitive normalization of a word like rape is a big deal. It doesn't mean every kid who tags a photo #rapeface is incapable of empathy or is destined to be a sociopath or rapist. But they are unknowingly contributing to a culture and a climate that tells survivors they aren't safe or supported. It's on the continuum of victim blaming and glorifying violence and contributing to a significant and critical issue for women and girls. To be indifferent to the word rape is to be indifferent to the prevalence of rape.
The turning point for my son, was when he thought about how someone who had been raped might feel seeing a silly photo tagged #rapeface. We continued talking and listening to each other. And that's exactly where we all need to start. We need to be having these conversations with our kids and with our own peers about reclaiming words like rape if we want to start making a big deal about putting an end to rape culture.

Talking to My Son About #Rapeface | Sandra Hawken Diaz

I remember boys making rape jokes in junior high, so the tradition of boys being callous toward girls and women continues.

This is one comment to this piece that has me thinking:

“This entire argument against rape culture is subverted by the fact that our western social system revolves around taking advantage of others, typically for monetary gain. Therefore telling someone that rape isn't a subject to be trivialized, comes into direct conflict with social conditioning in regards to being competitive. Rape isn't merely a man engaging a woman in non-consensual sex, it isn't primarily gender based. It's a competitive act. It forces another to submit. And we glorify forcing others to submit across the media. #Rapeface isn't very shocking, it's actually a very articulate representation of how we perceive others. We can pretend that if we use gender politics and awareness to end Rape Culture, but rape is considered just another strategy in the our system of competition. There's a reason that the word rape is used significantly in sports, games, class room testing, work, spending money, etc. So from my point of view, one would have to tackle this greater picture and create equality between all people before rape culture can actually dissipate.”

Banaspaty: This entire argument against rape culture is subverted by the

Rape is about power, and men who rape women want dominance over them. Maybe our overly competitive society is what helps fuel rape culture. After all, some men are threatened to see women be strong and successful, and they would feel the need to nail them down, literally and figuratively. I get the impression too many men, and young men, think the only way to be masculine is to be aggressive toward women and anything else is emasuclating. It is possible to see women as equals and not lose sense of your masculinity.

[Jive Turkey]

What about phrases like pedophile glasses or perv mustache? What about creepy uncle jokes? The antirape joke movement is becoming a joke unto itself

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

What about phrases like pedophile glasses or perv mustache? What about creepy uncle jokes? The antirape joke movement is becoming a joke unto itself

Rape jokes treat rape as no big deal when it isn't. I really don't see how creepy perv jokes are in the same category as rape jokes.

[Jive Turkey]

You certainly chose the softest example of the three. You don't see how pedophilia is similar? Or an incestuous uncle?

The anti-rape joke sentiment used to be "just don't make anyone the victim of the joke". But it's quickly - and predictably, I might add - moved on to "don't make any jokes about rape". Sorry, your offense doesn't deserve any special privileges

[Pearl]

And I don't understand why you get so riled up when someone points out that rape jokes are offensive to many women.

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Rape jokes treat rape as no big deal when it isn't. I really don't see how creepy perv jokes are in the same category as rape jokes.

It doesn't follow that one should make comedic figures out of them if they are going to be offended by rape jokes because, assuming creepy pervs are the people that eventually commit rape, those jokes are part of the same culture. Why mock the lead up if you refuse to mock the end result?

[LemonMelon]

Of course, I can't remember the last time I made jokes like that myself. I don't seek to perpetuate a harmful culture or anything like that and I'm rarely clever enough to justify the attempt. But I do think others have done it very humorously with a degree of meaningful satire and I'm glad that Jive made that distinction. #rapeface sounds like something Smosh came up with and a couple teenage boys started repeating it.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

It doesn't follow that one should make comedic figures out of them if they are going to be offended by rape jokes because, assuming creepy pervs are the people that eventually commit rape, those jokes are part of the same culture. Why mock the lead up if you refuse to mock the end result?

If a comedian is going to mock both the perv/pedophile/what have you and the rape, fine. But some rape jokes I have heard over the years gear it toward the victim rather than the rapist. They usually were the context of "she actually liked it" sort of thing.

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Of course, I can't remember the last time I made jokes like that myself. I don't seek to perpetuate a harmful culture or anything like that and I'm rarely clever enough to justify the attempt. But I do think others have done it very humorously with a degree of meaningful satire and I'm glad that Jive made that distinction. #rapeface sounds like something Smosh came up with and a couple teenage boys started repeating it.

True, teenagers don't have the greatest empathy levels, and that makes their rape jokes off-putting because sometimes they are geared toward the victim. And they often have a more hateful tone to them.

[BEAL]

http://youtu.be/arhF6OV1BuQ