Is Feminism Still Relevant?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by jeevey

Holy shit. Did you really just say that?

What's so wrong about saying that immigrants have a higher birthrate? Take a breath please. You seem like a cat ready to pounce...

Pew Research

Despite the recent decline, foreign-born mothers continue to give birth to a disproportionate share of the nation’s newborns, as they have for at least the past two decades.

[jeevey]

You seem to be attributing Texas' higher rates of STDs and teen pregnancy (which I think is what Irvine was referring to, since we've been talking specifically about teen sex for the last few pages) to their population of undocumented immigrants. Is that not the case?

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by jeevey

You seem to be attributing Texas' higher rates of STDs and teen pregnancy (which I think is what Irvine was referring to, since we've been talking specifically about teen sex for the last few pages) to their population of undocumented immigrants. Is that not the case?

I'm confused too, AEON. It looks like you totally changed the subject.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Pearl

I'm confused too, AEON. It looks like you totally changed the subject.

No - I was referring to Irvine's comparison of the birthrates between Texas and Mass. My point is this is not comparing apples to apples.

[Diemen]

I'm pretty sure the rates would still skew heavily in favor of Mass if you removed immigrants from the equation.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I'm pretty sure the rates would still skew heavily in favor of Mass if you removed immigrants from the equation.

Yeah, I'm not sure how we could remove that data cleanly but I would tend to agree.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

all very interesting observations. i remember couples who were virtually "married" in high school and college, and i think it comes at a cost of personal development to some degree.

yet....you argue in favor monogamy.

Originally Posted by Irvine511

with monogamy you have accountability, and the negative consequences of sex are virtually nil. if two people are std free and they only have sex with each other, they will never contract an std.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by AEON

yet....you argue in favor monogamy.

So?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

So?

You seem to be saying that you think monogamy stunts personal development.

[anitram]

I don't think that's what he's saying, but rather that couples that get together when they are 14/15 and immediately become very serious about each other may not get the same benefit of having dated multiple people, learned about what works and what doesn't in a relationship, develop as independent adults and so on.

I have friends who did that and when the relationships (or eventual marriages) broke down years later it was like they didn't know how to function in an adult world in the same way as the rest of us. They had a MUCH harder time coping with being single, with re-entering the dating world, and so on that people who had had a more typical dating background.

[Pearl]

Great piece that says it all:

What we don’t say is: of course not all men hate women. But culture hates women, so men who grow up in a sexist culture have a tendency to do and say sexist things, often without meaning to. We aren’t judging you for who you are but that doesn’t mean we’re not asking you to change your behaviour. What you feel about women in your heart is of less immediate importance than how you treat them on a daily basis.

You can be the gentlest, sweetest man in the world yet still benefit from sexism. That’s how oppression works. Thousands of otherwise decent people are persuaded to go along with an unfair system because it’s less hassle that way. The appropriate response when somebody demands a change in that unfair system is to listen, rather than turning away or yelling, as a child might, that it’s not your fault. And it isn’t your fault. I’m sure you’re lovely. That doesn’t mean you don’t have a responsibility to do something about it.

Of course all men don’t hate women. But all men must know they benefit from sexism

[Jive Turkey]

"as a child might"

One day, I'll read a feminist blog free of needless, passive aggressive jabs like this and actually take them seriously

[Pearl]

It sure doesn't help that plenty of your fellow guys do react that way.

I also think you missed the point of that whole passage, as if you read "as a child might" and scorned everything else.

[Jive Turkey]

I read the entire article and took nothing from it because it literally offered nothing. Just a couple vague 'solutions' in the final paragraph.

and in regard to that sentence, take the phrase "as a child might" out of it. Does it lose anything? It was nothing more than a petty, passive aggressive remark. If she's trying to reach 'men', maybe learn how to speak to people first

[Pearl]

I posted the article/op-ed to make a point that when most women do cry sexism, they are not accusing the whole male gender of being women-haters. Maybe you don't feel that we are, but in my experience, quite a few guys do.

[Jive Turkey]

I'm not even 100% what she's trying to say in this mess of a paragraph, but it's filled with a similar tone

"These days, before we talk about misogyny, women are increasingly being asked to modify our language so we don’t hurt men’s feelings. Don’t say, “Men oppress women” – that’s sexism, as bad as any sexism women ever have to handle, possibly worse. Instead, say, “Some men oppress women.” Whatever you do, don’t generalise. That’s something men do. Not all men – just somemen."

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Pearl

I posted the article/op-ed to make a point that when most women do cry sexism, they are not accusing the whole male gender of being women-haters.

But she kind of is. Not individually, but as a whole

"individual man, going about your daily business, eating crisps and playing BioShock 2, may not hate and hurt women, men as a group –men as a structure – certainly do."

She can't have it both ways

[AEON]

It should not, therefore, be as difficult as it is to explain to the average male that while you, individual man, going about your daily business, eating crisps and playing BioShock 2....

Like saying all women eat bon-bons and gossip. What an odd way to make a point.

[Irvine511]

Given that 1 out of every 3 women on the planet is abused by a male partner, and given that actual sexism is actually worse than accusations of reverse sexism, I think the poorly written point is a fair one.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Given that 1 out of every 3 women on the planet is abused by a male partner, and given that actual sexism is actually worse than accusations of reverse sexism, I think the poorly written point is a fair one.

Apart from the fact the 1 out of 3 stat is highly suspect (though that doesn't diminish the fact that one rape alone is a terrible thing), and the fact that I don't actively engage in any sexist behaviour or abuse, the whole "if you're a man, you're still contributing to the problem" is a lazy, easy out for someone not willing to look at a complicated issue more critically