Iraq: What to do?

[Jacobite]

^ ah, ok. Well that is somewhat more positive.

[Vincent Vega]

Ah letter by 36 NGOs to Kerry to put more pressure on the Iraqi government and also to do more for the IDPs and Syrian refugees in Iraq, mainly Kurdistan: http://pomed.org/wp-content/uploads/...raq-Letter.pdf

Since January Baghdad doesn't transfer the budget share of the Kurdistan Region (17% of the total budget of Iraq) to Erbil over oil disputes. Basically, Baghdad claims that all oil revenues have to go through there, while Erbil argues that oil fields that are located in the Kurdish areas are the Kurdish alone. This money, of course, is also needed to support the refugees from Syria (more than 215,000) and the large number of IDPs. In total, there are some 1.2 million refugees in Iraq at the moment, the overwhelming majority of which in Kurdistan or close to the border. What is often forgotten, for decades now Kurdistan is also home to refugees from Iran and Turkey, and since 2003 many people from Iraq came to Kurdistan escaping the ethnic violence.

Unicef reports that some 40 children died of dehydration in the Sinjar mountains. Those children belong to the Yezidi who had to flee Sinjar after ISIS marched in and are now trapped in the mountains, with no food or water. Around them are now fights between Kurdish peshmarga and IS fighters. If the Yezidi try to leave the mountains they get attacked by the IS, and right now they could also get caught up in the ongoing fights.
We, that is the organisation I work with, tried to get to them and bring water and food, but due to the ongoing fights it was impossible to reach. That means that it is vital for them that the Peshmarga drive out the IS very soon, otherwise more will die. It is summer in Kurdistan, which means temperature of 40°C and higher. Around Kirkuk, it even exceeds 50°C on some days.

[Vincent Vega]

Today's inaction by the West after the action of the recent past currently endangers the lives of 40,000 people:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-death-threat

[Jacobite]

Kurdish female fighters of YPG in Rojava take the oath to fight the Isis in Syria

https://twitter.com/kurdishblogger/s...038080/photo/1

[the iron horse]

President Bush was mistaken in thinking he could impose a democracy
in the region.

It would have been better if
the country had been divided into three separate areas
for the three religious/ethic groups.

This was the view that Joe Biden advocated before Obama started his run for president.

[Jacobite]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

President Bush was mistaken in thinking he could impose a democracy
in the region.

It would have been better if
the country had been divided into three separate areas
for the three religious/ethic groups.

This was the view that Joe Biden advocated before Obama started his run for president.

Also the current secretary of state is on record as saying that response of 9/11 should have been a policing/security matter. I don't think he was entirely wrong.

[Jacobite]

https://twitter.com/kurdishblogger/s...299904/photo/1

[Jacobite]

Am reading tweets saying US airstrikes on ISIS fighters have commenced, others say they haven't.

[Irvine511]

Supposedly targeted strikes to protect the humanitarian relief being offered by US planes to the 40,000 refugees stuck on the mountain some of whom are dying if dehydration.

What an awful situation.




Sent from

[kidrambler]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

President Bush was mistaken in thinking he could impose a democracy
in the region.

It would have been better if
the country had been divided into three separate areas
for the three religious/ethic groups.

This was the view that Joe Biden advocated before Obama started his run for president.

I thought the 3 state solution was to return to the 1948 boundaries in which Gaza was controlled by Egypt and the West Bank was controlled by Jordan.

A friend suggested to me that when Revelation says "the great city split into three parts" that perhaps that meant Jewish, Christian and Muslim. That seems plausible, but recently I question is Amos 9:7 might not convey the three parts because it says God brought Israelites out of Egypt, the Philistines out of Crete and Syrians out of Kir. I'm not sure what to think. What I know, however, is that no prophecy springs from man but rather from god's word, therefore, to god's word belongs the interpretations. Thus, babylon, the great city, in my understanding is Jerusalem. Compare Rev. 18:24 with Jesus' words at Matthew 23:29-38. Additionally, Ezekiel chapter 16 describes Jerusalem as a prostitute.

[Irvine511]

This is the Iraq thread, not the Israel thread.

Also, religious texts probably aren't a good foundation for the creation of foreign policy.

Sent from

[kidrambler]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

This is the Iraq thread, not the Israel thread.

Also, religious texts probably aren't a good foundation for the creation of foreign policy.

Sent from

OOPS! Sorry.

It felt obvious to me, when President Obama announced last night, that those targeted attacks were bound to occur. I hope those fleeing are getting water. I recall a recent time in our U.S. history when MREs were dropped down and the people needing them didn't know how to use the food contained inside them. I agree religious texts aren't a good foundation for the creation of foreign policy. However, it is a religious war.

[Vincent Vega]

It's not a religous war. As usual, religion is used as a tool. al-Baghdadi wants power, and he knows that the vehicle is religion.

There are reports that peshmarga rescued some 11,000 Yezidi from Sinjar mountain. That means some 30,000 are left. Several 100 have died from the heat, lack of water and lack of food.

There are more concerted efforts now in fighting ISIS. The US provided air support against artillery batteries which shot at peshmerga positions defending Erbil. Syrian Kurdish fighters have crossed the border to defend the Western flank, even though they are under a lot of pressure from ISIS inside Syria where the city of Kobani and surrounding areas are being under siege. PKK fighters came to Makhmour, which is south-west of Erbil, to protect Turkish Kurds who lived there as refugees since the early 90s, after Turkish military destroyed their hometowns and killed thousands of Kurds. Also Iranian Kurdish fighters have joined to protect the Eastern border of Iraq and Kurdistan. I hope that this will have spillover effects on the relations between the different factions. So far, the notion that all Kurds are one and brothers has mainly been lip service.

Even the Iraqi air force has so far been rather helpful and actually hit ISIS fighters, not peshmerga.

[kidrambler]

Yes, that's what I meant too. Thank you for clarifying the point that religion is the tool, but it's a tool for the U.S. as well. Since "the love of money is the root of all evil" the real cause for this offensive is all about the money. What money? I'll get to that, first let me point out that the video on those mountains that are being played on constant repeat here shows people living in a way that we Americans find deplorable because it is vastly different from our way of life. Yet the videos show that these hungry and thirsty victims are moving uphill with goats, sheep and perhaps a few cattle too. Those would provide enough meat and milk for any suffering souls. Is it possible, I ask rhetorically, that the media is the tool selling us on a message of dire circumstances? In the past couple days, before today, an interesting point slipped into the media and has become a major point today, second only to our so-called humanitarian mission. That point being how important the Kurds are because they work with us and we must protect them; also, most of the oil in Iraq is in the region of the Kurdish people. Is it possible, again I ask rhetorically but have will at your pleasure, that we are being sold a load of crap? "The love of money is the root of all evil." Let all who believe that Word is inspired of God, brought forth by the Holy Spirit itself, open their eyes and ears that they might see and hear the more probable realities. "If you remain in my word... you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." Interestingly, the Kurds are the same people over whom Saddam Hussein was accused of "gassing his own people." How did the crying Yezidi woman make it to our congress to plead for help for her people who are fleeing in fear of genocide?

I recall the Kuwaiti woman, before George Herbert Walker Bush led us into Desert Storm, who came crying that Saddam's soldiers were pulling "babies out of incubators." That story proved to be a lie, but not before we went to war. Before the second G. Bush took us to war in Iraq, the only journalist, the CNN host Judy Woodruff was the only reporter to bring up that historical lesson as a warning to exercise caution and she was inexplicably gone from the network. She now is co-anchor of the PBS Newshour. We "little people" are so easily fooled and dragged along. If you care about our troops, you'd pay better attention when our government--acting on behalf of Wall St. and OPEC-- send them off to kill or be killed or maimed for "the love of money" they'll never see for themselves. Our gov't won't even take care of them after they come home from battle. It's disgustingly repulsive for any of us to believe lies so easily. It's even more reprehensible for believers to not know their god or his word well enough to know they are being lied to. Even if they don't know it's lying, that they would condone so easily the judgments from the kings of the earth who get to declare who is worthy of living and who is not. Sorry, I get carried away sometimes, but I said nothing that needs to be retracted. How quickly we destroy the Word of God for what we want to believe, for our personal gratification.

[Irvine511]

I dunno.

There's something about religion that's uniquely motivating.


Sent from

[kidrambler]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I dunno.

There's something about religion that's uniquely motivating.


Sent from

That is because there is something about religiosity that is profoundly stupefying.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I dunno.

There's something about religion that's uniquely motivating.


Sent from

Well, I mean, religion (or at least faith, not organized religion perhaps) is the entire motivation behind existence in the eyes of those who follow it, isn't it?

[kidrambler]

Originally Posted by bono_212

Well, I mean, religion (or at least faith, not organized religion perhaps) is the entire motivation behind existence in the eyes of those who follow it, isn't it?

Exactly. Organized religion is the problem because most adherents surrender their minds to whatever they are told is the truth--the good and acceptable will of god, rather than "making sure of all things."

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by kidrambler

Exactly. Organized religion is the problem because adherents surrender their minds to whatever they are told is the truth, rather than "making sure of all things."

I can get behind that idea, to an extent. People take advantage of power in all places, religion just has a more nefarious feel to it, when exploited, because people can put their entire self into it. The results of which can, clearly, be very negative.

[kidrambler]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I can get behind that idea, to an extent. People take advantage of power in all places, religion just has a more nefarious feel to it, when exploited, because people can put their entire self into it. The results of which can, clearly, be very negative.

Organizations (secular, religious and charitable) take on an arrogance of necessity. It's as if the organization becomes the servant of god rather than the individual. It actually supplants the congregation of god's people with an institution requiring laws to keep everyone in submission. Consequently, organizations stifle the will of god by presuming itself to be the director of god's will. Ultimately, all these organizations stumble because fund-raising becomes essential to accomplishing god's will (aka good will) and its power becomes inevitably limited. "The love of money is the root of all evil." Humans are the only species which pays to live on earth, and that is all owing to man-made organizations and/or powers.