MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Mitt hired Mexicans to cut his lawn 
Illinois & California set sights on the Dream Act.
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Didn't read it but the author was on Bill O'Reilly a few nights ago. Interesting... his grandfather brought him over from the Philippines with a fake visa and social security number. He lied to get into journalism school, lied on his job application for the Washington Post (which he admited was a crime) and didn't say if he ever registered to vote. Our system "forces you to lie" he said. Well, all crime forces the culprit to lie doesn't it?
So he lied to take the slot in journalism school from an American student.
He lied to take a newspaper job from an American worker.
He had a false social security number -- if you or I do that it's called identity theft by the way.
And if he didn't, many of these "undocumented immigrants" vote disenfranchising a voting American citizen. And yet HE'S the victim !!
And these are the "otherwise law-abiding immigrants" the president says we shouldn't, and he won't, deport.
Well I call B. S. We have a problem that needs to be addressed but this is pandering.
And by the way, even if you totally disagree with my take or think me a xenophobic bigot (BVS
), are the president's actions going to alleviate or exacerbate this problem if we don't first stop illegal immigration at our borders?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
I believe you wrote that you supported Rubio, that he would be a good pick for V P?
Could Rubio plan lead to citizenship? - POLITICO.com
his plan for these same children was what?
Could Rubio plan lead to citizenship? - POLITICO.com
his plan for these same children was what?
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Didn't read it but the author was on Bill O'Reilly a few nights ago. Interesting... his grandfather brought him over from the Philippines with a fake visa and social security number. He lied to get into journalism school, lied on his job application for the Washington Post (which he admited was a crime) and didn't say if he ever registered to vote. Our system "forces you to lie" he said. Well, all crime forces the culprit to lie doesn't it?
So he lied to take the slot in journalism school from an American student.
He lied to take a newspaper job from an American worker.
He had a false social security number -- if you or I do that it's called identity theft by the way.
And if he didn't, many of these "undocumented immigrants" vote disenfranchising a voting American citizen. And yet HE'S the victim !!
And these are the "otherwise law-abiding immigrants" the president says we shouldn't, and he won't, deport.
Well I call B. S. We have a problem that needs to be addressed but this is pandering.
And by the way, even if you totally disagree with my take or think me a xenophobic bigot (BVS
Well, again, I would suggest reading the article. I believe it goes further into detail as to why he had to lie about so much of that stuff. And if his grandfather was responsible for bringing him over when he was young, well, that's not exactly his fault, is it? And then he grows up here and forms a life for himself here, so it's probably not easy for him to just give all that up and go back home.
He acknowledges what he did was illegal and a crime, it's not like he's denying any of that to be true. But see, you and I, because we were born and raised here, will never have to worry about going through legal loopholes to prove we're worthy of being U.S. citizens. I don't know how tough the process is, but I don't doubt there are probably things about it that make it harder for some people to legally come here. But yet they're so desperate to come here for whatever reason (and isn't that proof of America's greatness, the fact that we have people anxious to come here?), so, again, depending on the situation, just getting here is their goal, and they'll worry about the legalities later.
He broke the law, yes, but otherwise, he seems to have made a proper life for himself in every other regard. He hasn't become one of those "lazy bums" that some stereotype immigrants as (again, if they aren't working, they're lazy, but if they're working, they're taking jobs, so they can't seem to win either way). He hasn't turned to a life selling drugs or causing trouble within the country or whatever. In nearly every definition he is as American a citizen as anyone else here. He just doesn't have the legal documents to state such a thing. But I think that can still be fixed, and of all the crimes in the world to deal with, I think we have a few bigger fish to fry right now, sorry.
As for Obama's actions, I honestly don't think it's going to affect things much one way or another. The issue of immigration runs a lot deeper than whatever Obama's doing now, it's not as easy as saying, "Well, we'll just deport everyone/build a fence, problem solved!"
Moonlit_Angel said:
Well said.
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Didn't read it but the author was on Bill O'Reilly a few nights ago. Interesting... his grandfather brought him over from the Philippines with a fake visa and social security number. He lied to get into journalism school, lied on his job application for the Washington Post (which he admited was a crime) and didn't say if he ever registered to vote. Our system "forces you to lie" he said. Well, all crime forces the culprit to lie doesn't it?
So he lied to take the slot in journalism school from an American student.
He lied to take a newspaper job from an American worker.
He had a false social security number -- if you or I do that it's called identity theft by the way.
And if he didn't, many of these "undocumented immigrants" vote disenfranchising a voting American citizen. And yet HE'S the victim !!
And these are the "otherwise law-abiding immigrants" the president says we shouldn't, and he won't, deport.
Well I call B. S. We have a problem that needs to be addressed but this is pandering.
And by the way, even if you totally disagree with my take or think me a xenophobic bigot (BVS
I am actually pretty conservative when it comes to illegal immigration. I see no reason to oppose stronger measures to control illegal immigration.
However, I rarely find an opportunity to express my support because the tone of so many of the proponents of stronger measures is so repugnant.
Your post isn't exactly repugnant but it seems lacking in compassion. It's one thing of this guy came over of his own free will and then proceeded to live a life of lies so he could stay. What was missing from your post--what would have made me buy it--was "If it were me, when I found out I was illegally in the country and was old enough to do something about it the first thing I would do, is get a ticket back to the Philippines. I know it would be hard to say goodbye to my friends, family, and life here in America knowing that I'll likely never come back. But it's far more important that I follow the law and not take jobs from the Americans who are actually supposed to be here. I would figure things out in the Philippines and hey, there's always Skype too!"
If you'd said that, well, okay. Maybe I can buy a hardline stance.
It's interesting, because Vargas actually more or less made the choice I described above when he decided to go public with his immigration status. He's actually approached the ICE because he expected that with all the publicity they must surely be planning to deport him. But they told him that they actually have no record of his existence and so can't/won't do anything about him.
But I'm guessing if you were in his shoes you would have taken the onus on yourself and left voluntarily, right?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Excellent post as always 
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
And by the way, even if you totally disagree with my take or think me a xenophobic bigot (BVS
I find it disgusting that you have me on ignore, refuse to engage with me yet still call me out on something I haven't done. Nothing but class
Great post, Sean.
These are my views as well. I immigrated to the west (lived in more than one country before settling on Canada) as a child and while we did so legally, I often think, what would I have done if my parents had taken me abroad out of desperation, as a young child? For people who weren't immigrants as children, you just can't at all understand the difficulties or even the process itself. What happens is that you were born somewhere else and at home you may speak one language, eat ethnic food, celebrate your birth country's holidays or observe their religious practices. But in every other way you become integrated with the society around you. For example, I have no friends in my country of birth. I speak the language fluently but not as well as English. I graduated from elementary school, high school, university and law school in Canada. I learned how to drive here, I had my first boyfriend here, my first job, all the big milestones that you can think of. My partner is Canadian and obviously does not speak my native tongue, though he's picked up some odds and ends here and there.
What does a person like that do when they come to a full understanding of the law and that they are breaking it? Do what Sean's done? It's completely unrealistic, because that person no longer has reasonable or real ties with their "home" country. And by NO CHOICE of their own. I understand what he means when he says that the law forced him to lie, because after a while he felt like an American and everything about him was American. And you expect a person like that to go return to a place around the world that he no longer knows. It's cruel. Deal with the parents or the grandparents in some appropriate way, I agree. But for a law abiding citizen like him who is really a victim of circumstances, let's be a little...Christian, shall we?
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Great post, Sean.
You'll probably like this one more than the one in the sin thread.
You did a better job than I did of explaining this, perhaps because it's informed by your own experience.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Echoing the general sentiment, excellent posts, Sean and anitram . Sean, I'd actually be interested to hear your thoughts further on the issue of immigration. I have no problem with making sure our borders are safe and we are keeping an eye out for people who may come here with dangerous plans and such. I think any laws we make related to immigration should be done with the goal of protecting both immigrants and native U.S. citizens.
But I liked your comment about compassion and putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
Also, thanks, Diemen
.
. Sean, I'd actually be interested to hear your thoughts further on the issue of immigration. I have no problem with making sure our borders are safe and we are keeping an eye out for people who may come here with dangerous plans and such. I think any laws we make related to immigration should be done with the goal of protecting both immigrants and native U.S. citizens. But I liked your comment about compassion and putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
Also, thanks, Diemen
.
OP
OP
Dfit00
War Child
I predict that by 2050, the majority of prospective immigrants will have already realized the great potential that there is in China and India.
Immigrants will then start running to China, requesting Chinese visas and learning Chinese instead of learning English and going crazy to come to The States.
Chinese immigration laws and restrictions are tougher than in the US and Europe, making it a serious challenge from right now (when the boom hasn't even happened yet) to immigrate to China legally and on a permanent basis.
And don't forget Mexico, with a projected per capita income of about $63,000 by the end of 2050, compared to the current one being about $16K.
Immigrants will then start running to China, requesting Chinese visas and learning Chinese instead of learning English and going crazy to come to The States.
Chinese immigration laws and restrictions are tougher than in the US and Europe, making it a serious challenge from right now (when the boom hasn't even happened yet) to immigrate to China legally and on a permanent basis.
And don't forget Mexico, with a projected per capita income of about $63,000 by the end of 2050, compared to the current one being about $16K.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Because he said "our president?"
We already got a non-US citizen in the White House, so why is this absurd?
OP
OP
Dfit00
War Child
I'm surprised that this statement would come off from a person like you.We already got a non-US citizen in the White House, so why is this absurd?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
One thing about Sean, he is a honest person.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
With a good sense of humor.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
You say Indy500's post is borderline repugnant and lacking in compassion. If what you say is true - if you genuinely are a conservative on immigration issues but are not prepared to advocate for it on the forum - then your post is something worse - plain cowardly and vacillating.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
In spite of the drug trade related violence, Mexico has kicked the US's arse in recent years on the economy front:-
Mexico elections: failure of drugs war leaves nation at the crossroads | World news | The Observer
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
financeguy said:
Seriously? What is your problem? Did you just completely misunderstand his entire post, or are you just going for full on attack trolling mode? There was absolutely no need for this.
I've been thinking about this for a few days because it's bothering me. I find it interesting that you didn't say that he took a spot in school or a job from somebody in the US legally, but from an "American". Makes me wonder whether you distinguish, perhaps subconsciously, between "real" Americans and immigrants who may have a green card or are naturalized citizens, for example.
I ask because I have found this attitude on occasion (in Canada, the beacon of immigration policies, so they say). I actually found it astounding that somebody would say to my face that "those people" are taking jobs or spots in universities because their parents force them to study more, etc. Like, hello, you're talking to one of THOSE people. Ridiculous.
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
It's ridiculous that you don't even try to understand opposing views. What part of ILLEGAL immigrants don't you understand. "THOSE PEOPLE" are not neutralized citizens, those on visas, those with green cards, exchange students or Irish musicians on tour in America.
Calm yourself.
The reason I asked you is because I didn't know what you meant. If I didn't want to understand what you meant, I wouldn't have asked you to clarify.
As for the "those people" comment, I wasn't even talking about you, but giving you an example of what I have personally encountered and yes, I was most certainly a citizen by then. Doesn't mean that ignorant people won't say it.
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I was trying to pull a Deep there. . .guess it didn't work. . .
Them's fightin' words, fella.
:kicks over bar-room table:
Seriously, though:
I did not say his post was borderline repugnant. That was your rephrasing of what I said.
I did say that his post lacked compassion. I stand by that.
I am fully prepared to advocate for enforcing immigration law. That does not mean I need to voice support sentiments like the ones INDY has expressed.
The SCOTUS struck down most of the Arizona SB1070 law including provisions that made it a crime for immigrants without work permits to seek employment, to fail to carry registration documents and provisions authorizing the police to arrest any immigrant that they believe has committed a deportable offence. What remains are the provisions allowing the police to demand papers of individuals who have been pulled over for some other violation.
Meanwhile in Canada, the federal government has introduced the Faster Removal of Foreign Criminals Act, which grants broad discretionary powers on the immigration minister to deny temporary-resident status to immigrants based on public policy considerations. But the main point of the bill is to lower the deportation bar such that immigrants who have been sentenced to less than 6 months can use the immigration appeals process (currently it's 2 years), while the rest would be subject to swift deportation. It's actually a very sensible policy insofar as deportation is concerned. I always worry when broad discretionary powers are bestowed on public officials (it invites subjectivity) but I haven't read the bill yet so I'm not sure how I'd feel about the non-deportation provisions without seeing them.
Meanwhile in Canada, the federal government has introduced the Faster Removal of Foreign Criminals Act, which grants broad discretionary powers on the immigration minister to deny temporary-resident status to immigrants based on public policy considerations. But the main point of the bill is to lower the deportation bar such that immigrants who have been sentenced to less than 6 months can use the immigration appeals process (currently it's 2 years), while the rest would be subject to swift deportation. It's actually a very sensible policy insofar as deportation is concerned. I always worry when broad discretionary powers are bestowed on public officials (it invites subjectivity) but I haven't read the bill yet so I'm not sure how I'd feel about the non-deportation provisions without seeing them.
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