"I Am A Ukrainian" - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-10-2014, 02:43 PM   #141
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,060
Local Time: 03:38 AM
Putin is the new Saddam.
__________________

Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 05:20 PM   #142
The Fly
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 285
Local Time: 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Blatantly false, again. Name one person in this thread who is using news of fascist factions in the Ukraine to justify the Russian invasion.


Oh, what's that? You can't?
I'm talking about the Russian Foreign Policy Establishment and what they are doing to Ukraine and their justifications for doing it. In 1938, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia under trumped up charges of needing to defend ethnic Germans living there. Hitler then annexed a large part of the country. In 2014, Russia has invaded the Ukraine on trumped up charges of needing to defend ethnic Russians in the Ukraine and is planning to possibly annex Crimea into Russia. If that happens, it will be the first annexation of the part of another country in Europe since Hitler did it. There is an exact parallel between what Hitler did in 1938 and what Putin is doing in 2014 and Hillary Clinton, perhaps the next President of the United States, has stated this as well.
__________________

Steve_Bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 06:05 PM   #143
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,621
Local Time: 02:38 AM
And once again you're constructing and debating arguments that no one here is making, "Steve".
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 06:49 PM   #144
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,060
Local Time: 03:38 AM
i guess we shoulda gone to war with Russia back in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia, just like John McCain wanted.
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 07:13 PM   #145
The Fly
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 285
Local Time: 04:38 AM
There will definitely be a war if Russia tries to do what it has done in Georgia and Ukraine, in places like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Those three countries are also former Soviet Republics, and Estonia and Latvia have a higher percentage of ethnic Russians than Ukraine does. One out of every four people in Estonia and Latvia are ethnic Russians. I hope Putin does not decide they need protection too. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania became members of the NATO alliance in 2004.
Steve_Bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 08:26 PM   #146
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,729
Local Time: 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Bono View Post
There will definitely be a war if Russia tries to do what it has done in Georgia and Ukraine, in places like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania...

I hope Putin does not decide they need protection too.
It's pretty repulsive of you to wish war on three nations and their innocent people. Have you no shame?
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 09:48 PM   #147
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Aygo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Barcelona, Spain [Lisbon, Portugal]
Posts: 3,543
Local Time: 08:38 AM
I'm not sure that this "force show off" that's not yet a trial of arms will end up in a real war. No one in either sides is interested in that concerning this situation, although I believe that the 2008 crisis (that is not over yet, and that we all know that it'll bring another "wave" soon - 15 months, 18 months, 4 years?) will be solved in a similar way that the 1929 crisis was.
If there's one conclusion that we can take from this situation is that the Obama administration - and his Kerry puppet - is not the best expert in foreign policy, specially in cases like these, like Syria, etc. Plus, everything seems to be set for throwing Hillary (someone who's much better prepared for these kind of things) to the scenario of being elected in 2016 elections, and no one in Obama's or Clinton's side want to ruin it.
On the other hand, Europe has always been a disaster in what concerns dealing with political crisis of foreign countries. Not only because of its multiplicity, which leads the EU to speak through multiple voices and opinions, because several countries have different interests in those specific situations (ex: in this case, Germany and the UK clearly have different agendas), but also because it doesn't have real military power (eventually France and the UK, but Europe always needs NATO, which means, the US).
On the other hand, Putin is a true political fox and has been playing very wisely in its own/in Russia's perspective of what may be done and what's not. One example, unlike what Steve (and the general media) says - as I heard explained on tv by former military officer and politician, Putin send his navy to Crimea, but the way he did it, no one can claim that the Budapest agreement was violated. Not only because Russia has military bases there, but also because, not only sending these forces was "signaled", but also because these forces are officially in a stationary position. Putin, in my perspective, has been the most clever because he's been playing "carefully" and wisely with the official rules and behaviours of the international law. An example is the Crimea referendum that'll take place on March 16th. Predictably, a majority in Crimea will say "yes" about getting back to Russia. It's a referendum, and Putin will play the card of the democratic popular decision of self-determination of a territory - this is a mere example.

Plus, no one, whether the US/EU, whether Russia, dare now, throwing Ukraine in a real civil war that ends up in the division of Ukraine in 2 or more parts. Firstly, because Russia, just like in the past, and just like it happened to Finland, won't really mind if Ukraine leads towards Europe, signing an agreement but staying out of NATO; but also because the EU doesn't want to risk losing most Ukraine's and Russia's profits (specially economics). I must remind that the UK is not favorable at all to a conflict with Russia, because it has too much russian investment (as it always had).
Plus, no one wants to risk that Ukraine isolates in radicalisms, distancing both from Russia and the EU and redeveloping itself as the nuclear power that was and, in the end, still is.

But you know what's funny about all this?
European elections in May 25th will most probably result in a growth of (moderately or more heavily) eurosceptic right parties, of former-communist parties, of left-wing parties that want a pre-Maastricht Europe, specially of extreme-right and neo-nazi parties; which means that we'll probably watch a decrease in results (and seats) of the traditional big parties that used to "rule" and that built this Europe, namely, the parties that belong to the Social-Democratic European Party (which is not social-democratic for 20 years or so, now is Third Way or social-liberalist) and the European People's Party.
Meanwhile, Iceland withdrew its candidacy for EU, Erdogan in Turkey seems to be chilling the talk about its candidacy...
...And in the middle of a political chaos in Europe, with Greece in flames, states bailed out and with crescent protest, and Eastern Europe with the Russian demon present but that always misdoubts the West and Europe, with the UK making threats to EU, with the blooming of separatisms, with the possibility (real or small) of the european project not holding not succeding and collapsing (again)...
...Ukraine (or part of Ukraine) wants to jump in. In the middle of this whirl, Durão Barroso and the techno-bureaucrats couldn't be happier with this news.
Aygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:34 AM   #148
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,357
Local Time: 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i guess we shoulda gone to war with Russia back in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia, just like John McCain wanted.
If anyone else recalls, our good mate McCain got a bit close with Tyagnybok last December or thereabouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
It's pretty repulsive of you to wish war on three nations and their innocent people. Have you no shame?
How low can Steve Bono go? Looks like he's still digging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aygo View Post
But you know what's funny about all this?
European elections in May 25th will most probably result in a growth of (moderately or more heavily) eurosceptic right parties, of former-communist parties, of left-wing parties that want a pre-Maastricht Europe, specially of extreme-right and neo-nazi parties; which means that we'll probably watch a decrease in results (and seats) of the traditional big parties that used to "rule" and that built this Europe, namely, the parties that belong to the Social-Democratic European Party (which is not social-democratic for 20 years or so, now is Third Way or social-liberalist) and the European People's Party.
Meanwhile, Iceland withdrew its candidacy for EU, Erdogan in Turkey seems to be chilling the talk about its candidacy...
...And in the middle of a political chaos in Europe, with Greece in flames, states bailed out and with crescent protest, and Eastern Europe with the Russian demon present but that always misdoubts the West and Europe, with the UK making threats to EU, with the blooming of separatisms, with the possibility (real or small) of the european project not holding not succeding and collapsing (again)...
...Ukraine (or part of Ukraine) wants to jump in. In the middle of this whirl, Durão Barroso and the techno-bureaucrats couldn't be happier with this news.
What is the real significance of the EU elections? I know very little about this and how influential these elections really are.
Vlad n U 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 08:32 AM   #149
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Aygo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Barcelona, Spain [Lisbon, Portugal]
Posts: 3,543
Local Time: 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
What is the real significance of the EU elections? I know very little about this and how influential these elections really are.
The May 25th elections will elect the 700-and-something (750? 780? can't remember exactly) deputees from the 28 countries for the European Parliament, and those deputees will elect, after, the new President of the European Comission. There's the expectation that, despite both the EPP and the S&D groups will see a decrease in votes, the S&D might win and they want Martin Schulz (a german!... of course) for president.
The European elections, in most countries, usually have high rates of abstention, people don't care much because they feel it doesn't affect much the national policies (although I think it does and a lot... too much, in fact). Also, in many countries (Portugal is a good example), the European elections are usually the elections where the voters severely punish the party that is in the Government in their own country and go for the "vote of protest". With all this mess in many countries, we can expect an increase of this voting attitude.

How influential the institutions (some elected, some are not*) are for the life of the member-states? Well, that depends on the size/importance of the country, if the country is in a demonstration of force or if it's economically and politically sick...

Durão Barroso was not directly elected. He was "put" there by the parliament. Jean-Claude Juncker was not elected, was "put" there. Mario Draghi was not elected as well.
Part of the problem of these institutions is that many of these were not legitimized by the people, and even their permanence wasn't either. To most of the countries, no one was asked if the people of these countries wanted to join the EEC/EU, no one was asked about the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty which led to the Euro, of the "Stability and Growth" program (which is not), of the (illegal) Budget Intragovernamental Treaty, of the Nice and Lisbon treaties, etc.
For example, if you ask a slovakian about a spanish deputee deciding or making a law about his country, I highly doubt that he recognizes legitimacy in that person to decide whatsoever about Slovakia, and vice-versa (and apply it to other cases).
Aygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 04:28 PM   #150
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:38 AM
apparently many are now posting and tweeting

"I Am a Russian"

Quote:
On the streets of Simferopol, blue-and-yellow Ukrainian flags were nowhere to seen but red, white and blue Russian and Crimean flags fluttered in abundance.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/03/16/2993...#storylink=cpy
this situation has gone from very bad to now even more dangerous

I really can't even guess what is next.
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 05:05 PM   #151
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:38 AM
One option, Ukraine may just take this lying down

And hope Putin stops here.
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 05:43 PM   #152
ONE
love, blood, life
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York / Dallas / Austin
Posts: 14,074
Local Time: 02:38 AM
Crimea voted to join Russia with... wait for it... 95.5% in agreement.

BBC News - Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

The vote was widely boycotted, so the 95.5% number can't be ascribed to vote rigging (I guess?).
digitize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 01:12 AM   #153
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,357
Local Time: 07:08 PM
95.5% sounds overly excessive, but I still think a majority of Crimeans would've voted to join Russia anyway.
Vlad n U 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:08 AM   #154
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Aygo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Barcelona, Spain [Lisbon, Portugal]
Posts: 3,543
Local Time: 08:38 AM
In all this process, I just love EU (the US toy) opinion.
Kosovo secession was fine, even if some countries do not recognize it. Montenegro was fine.
The provisional ukrainian government which wasn't elected by anyone and whose members (that include 5 assume neonazis) was chosen by the "Sparta method"... Was fine.
And a referendum towards a territory that Kruschev (which was ukrainian) just gave as an object to Ukraine... Is illegal.
EU loves referendums... Not. Most of its countries weren't asked by referendum to join EU or the Euro, and those who did said "no" and released several referendums until the EU obtained the wanted "yes". When Greece threatened with a referendum to its permanence in the Euro in 2011(?), Prime-Minister Papandreou got its head chopped and got his government replaced by a bunch of non-elected technocrats from Goldman Sachs and chosen by the EU. When Catalonia or Basque Country or Scotland leave their threats of a referendum for their independence the EU says that the doors will be closed for these territories.
Aygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:22 AM   #155
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,357
Local Time: 07:08 PM
It's not at all an unpredictable stance from them, I think many people who don't resort to the black and whites and the good/evils will see that this reaction was pretty expected. Crimea's entry into Russia isn't something that benefits them.
Vlad n U 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #156
Blue Crack Supplier
 
elevated_u2_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,944
Local Time: 03:38 AM
Did I hear correctly that there wasn't even an option on the ballot to remain as part of the Ukraine? That sounds legit....
elevated_u2_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 07:59 AM   #157
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,357
Local Time: 07:08 PM
There was an option which asked if Crimea wanted to be restored as per the 1992 constitution, that constitution gives the Crimean parliament the choice to establish relations with who it wishes.
Vlad n U 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 05:43 PM   #158
Vocal parasite
 
Axver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 1853
Posts: 152,936
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Or in other words, you could choose from "Russia" or "possibly Russia".
__________________
"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

U2gigs: The most comprehensive U2 setlist database!
Gig pictures | Blog
Axver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 08:40 PM   #159
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 09:38 AM
Pretty good round up from well known enemy of western power, Stratfor:http://http://www.stratfor.com/weekl...onding-ukraine
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 08:10 AM   #160
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,357
Local Time: 07:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=1c6eYId4fPE

Svoboda members coming into the office of the director of a Ukrainian TV channel, and beat him, calling him a 'moskal' which is a slur used by Ukrainians re: Russians. A Ukrainian paper suggests that they took the guy into a vehicle and drove him off into an undisclosed location after the video stops, predictably.
__________________

Vlad n U 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×