Hobby Lobby decision

[BEAL]

This is a dangerous decision. Corporations now have faith? Guess of they're people. Can they go to jail too?

So where will this end? Can Muslim owners require women to wear burkas? Other xtian owners deny blood transfusion ?

I realize that the courts said it's ONLY for certain contraceptive, but at some point other companies will argue for more religious rights against it's employees.

The four or five plans it can now deny don't aren't even abortion related, it's it has nothing to do with AFTER fertilized egg, but more to prevent fertilization.

Tired of money buying the law in this country


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[bono_212]

I do not get this, not at all. It seems like a horrible precedent for future religious people to use their faith to get out of paying for health care.

 

[Irvine511]

wtf is it about contraception? seriously. why that?

 

[bono_212]

I'm having trouble understanding what this covers, all the articles I am reading just vaguely say "the four contraceptive methods".

 

[bono_212]

Furthermore, this article I'm reading on NBC has me confused. Does this decision only effect the companies that sued, or can any company that says they have religious right not to provide these four contraceptives do so? The NBC article seems to suggest it's only the three, but I didn't think that was how SCOTUS works.

 

[deep]

Anyone that receives insurance should have to sign and oath that they will not pull out.

Pulling out and spilling seed is going aginst G-d.

 

[deep]

I didn't think that was how SCOTUS works.

If it is working properly the seeds come from there.

 

[LemonMelon]

Cheapskates, honestly. And if they aren't, cheapskates can use their argument.

Anyway, it's a self-defeating argument; if you want to limit abortion, support condoms.

 

[bono_212]

OK, wait, is this accurate?

It doesn't affect:
• Most birth control pills
• Condoms
• Sponges
• Sterilization
It does affect:
• Plan B "morning-after pill"
• Ella "morning-after pill"
• Hormonal and copper intrauterine devices (IUDs)


Hobby Lobby case: What birth control is affected?

 

[corianderstem]

So is Hobby Lobby (and the other companies) just trying to avoid to allow their employees to have contraception covered at 100% (per the ACA, as it is a preventive medicine), or do they not want to cover it at all? As in, "No, you can't even pay $10 copay to get it, you have to pay full price."

Either way it's an appalling situation, but it's an important distinction (especially since they apparently will cover Viagra).

I am, however, tempted to read Ginsberg's 35-page "This is Bullshit" rebuttal, because, yes.

Edit: I am surprised to see that article claiming it does not impact "most birth control pills" - that goes against everything I had read (and thought I understood) so far.

 

[LemonMelon]

Even if that list is accurate, it's a slippery slope. There's nothing stopping another business from trying to duck taxes to Planned Parenthood under a similar heading.

 

[corianderstem]

I don't even think it's about them being cheapskates - anyone dealing with health insurance knows that actually giving birth costs a gajillion times more* than contraception.

It's about not wanting to cover contraception because morals. Vomit.





*true actuarial fact, yo

 

[bono_212]

See, I want to know exactly what this covers, before I get too riled. I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

Also didn't know that condoms were apparently covered by insurance? Been wasting money >_>


Either way, to distinguish, on a religious basis, what is and isn't allowed to be covered does open it up, as many has already pointed out, to other people of other faiths, that don't believe in blood transfusions, vaccines, etc.

 

[corianderstem]

Condoms are available over-the-counter, so are not really covered under insurance. I think even health care reimbursement accounts (aka flexible spending accounts) specify that you can only be reimbursed for OTC purchases with a prescription.

I should know that off the top of my head. Let me check our plan info ...

Edit: it lists "contraceptives" under the heading of "able to get reimbursed with a prescription," but I don't know that a doc would ever write an Rx for condoms. Weird. (Birth control pills are listed elsewhere; you can get reimbursed for your copay, assuming it's the kind that you're not getting for free thanks to the ACA.)

But even with that, that's not the same as being "covered by insurance," it just means the IRS considers it a "reimbursable health care expense" for purposes of these programs, so I'd like to know more about that.

/Benefitsnerd

 

[bono_212]

See, that's what I was thinking. That seems weird that they'd be covered under insurance.

I'm so glad you're in HR

 

[LemonMelon]

I don't even think it's about them being cheapskates - anyone dealing with health insurance knows that actually giving birth costs a gajillion times more* than contraception.

It's about not wanting to cover contraception because morals. Vomit.


*true actuarial fact, yo

It's 2014. If you're a religious individual, you have to pick your poison; contraception is an inevitability. Support that cheaper, safer form of contraception to prevent others or risk look like a hypocrite.

 

[anitram]

I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

How many medications are covered by insurance that are not a "necessity"?

Is Viagra a necessity?

 

[corianderstem]

See, I want to know exactly what this covers, before I get too riled. I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

You're not saying you'd have a problem with it being covered by insurance at all, are you? (i.e., I pay a $10 copay and the insurance company - or my employer if they're self-insured - pays the rest)

Or are you saying "it shouldn't be covered for free, make them pay a copay like other meds"?

If it turns out the HobbyLobby does not want to include birth control at all, then I have a big problem because apparently they are fine covering Viagra. If they are saying "no, we just don't want it to be free," I don't have as much of a problem with all of this (although definitely agree it's a very dangerous precedent and still pisses me off in general).

If they are saying they don't want to cover it at all, then they can kiss my rosy red ass.

 

[corianderstem]

It's 2014. If you're a religious individual, you have to pick your poison; contraception is an inevitability. Support that cheaper, safer form of contraception to prevent others or risk look like a hypocrite.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here?

 

[bono_212]

How many medications are covered by insurance that are not a "necessity"?

Is Viagra a necessity?

Is Viagra covered? See, this is why I'm asking questions.

 

[corianderstem]

I have seen some random comments saying that it is, but yeah, I'm in the same boat you are.

I know someone who had been working for a faith-based organization - their insurance did not cover contraception or Viagra, so at least there was consistency.

 

[bono_212]

Right, I 100% don't think Viagra should be covered, but if it is, then clearly anything remotely medical related is covered...and that should include the morning after pill.

 

[anitram]

This is a dangerous decision. Corporations now have faith?
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The court didn't actually resolve whether a for-profit corporation can "exercise religion." They basically skirted around the issue and suggested it cannot be rationally analyzed. So it's hard to tell what the long-term impact of this case will be.

 

[corianderstem]

Wellll, I don't know that it shouldn't be covered. I mean, erectile dysfunction is a medical condition. Not all EDs can be treated with a little blue pill, though, and I don't know the stats regarding how Viagra is prescribed/used. (Although apparently it's a hot black-market item. The things you learn in meetings with your medical carrier! The prescription usage stuff is always the most fascinating to me.)

We only just started covering other ED-related procedures Rx was never an issue, as far as I know. There are some drugs at a certain level that may not be covered (because of FDA approval issues or something), or have a much higher copay for one reason or another, but as far as I know, Viagra was always a covered drug for our plans.

But if it starts getting into morals ("we won't cover BC because only slutty sexing sluts take it, but married men need their Viagra, because they're obviously the only ones who take it!" ... I hyperbolize, but still.), then that's insane.

 

[LemonMelon]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here?

I'm saying that, if I'm reading the ruling right, it's patently hypocritical to support cutting off "all four methods of contraception" with the justification of morality because condoms themselves prevent abortion.

That's why I read this as being a cheapskate move; if it's a morality issue, the decision is self-defeating.

This post is, again, irrelevant if I read the ruling wrong. I'm getting a lot of mixed signals as to what this pertains to.

 

[deep]

real Americans support the Sloppy Hobby decision

 

[corianderstem]

I'm saying that, if I'm reading the ruling right, it's patently hypocritical to support cutting off "all four methods of contraception" with the justification of morality because condoms themselves prevent abortion.

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[anitram]

A very good point is that you can use many (not all) brands of the combination birth control pill as a morning after pill, in specific high dosages. For example, you'd take 4 pills as a first dose and then another 4 or 6 or whatever 12-24 hours later. So any woman with the "right" birth control pill prescription already has a default baby-killin' pill right at home.

And the ban on IUDs is also just silly.

 

[deep]

The real truth about the family that owns Hobby Lobby business that claim they should not have to go against their core religious beliefs and pay for a practice and choice that is against their religious beliefs is that they are really motivated by politics and not religion.


Hobby Lobby 401(k) invests in birth control makers

 

[bono_212]

Yeah, what makes a IUD any different than the pill?