Global Warming Revisited - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-18-2014, 01:24 PM   #61
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,622
Local Time: 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
not to mention...more than 1000 scientists? big whoop. think about how many scientists there are in the world (every field of science, every country, every continent)...suddenly that number doesn't seem so impressive. science is a pretty big umbrella and the word scientist a blanketed statement in this instance imo. i wouldn't consider people who study magnesium and magnets to be at all qualified to speak about global warming.
But 1000 is such a big number.
__________________

Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 02:28 PM   #62
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17,313
Local Time: 04:11 AM

Great, now how about you sit down and instead of reading other peoples' opinions, why don't you back it up yourself?

Do you know anything about carbon cycles? Nitrogen cycles? Atmospheric escape? The thermodynamics of a planetary system?

I can tell you that I've written a 68 page research paper on a planetary atmosphere. I can tell you that mathematically, as well as qualitatively, I understand what's going on. Can you say the same thing?

And here's the thing. I'm not telling you to not speak up. But, please, do not link me to an article and use your supporting evidence as "1000 scientists said so." Yes, every department has one. And then there's a good 15 others who identify that those scientists are the same scientists who allow politics to breed into their beliefs.
__________________

LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #63
Refugee
 
nbelcik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,592
Local Time: 01:11 AM
There are a lot of scientists who believe in intelligent design, it doesn't mean it's a valid scientific theory. The preponderance of evidence points towards the conclusion that climate change is occurring and humans are mostly responsible.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
nbelcik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2014, 11:21 PM   #64
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
There are a lot of scientists who believe in intelligent design, it doesn't mean it's a valid scientific theory. The preponderance of evidence points towards the conclusion that climate change is occurring and humans are mostly responsible.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference



29% of Earth is land mass. (Large oceans out there)

Of that 29% humans occupy less than 1% of that area.

Of the remaining 28% about 40% is pure wilderness.

14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics.

9% is Antarctica.

Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas.

The earth is doing fine.
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2014, 11:40 PM   #65
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 04:11 AM
You think what humans do only impacts the area they live on? Seriously?
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 12:09 AM   #66
Refugee
 
nbelcik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,592
Local Time: 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
29% of Earth is land mass. (Large oceans out there)



Of that 29% humans occupy less than 1% of that area.



Of the remaining 28% about 40% is pure wilderness.



14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics.



9% is Antarctica.



Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas.



The earth is doing fine.

This might be the dumbest argument I've ever heard. So because we don't live in the oceans we can't affect the oceans at all?


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
nbelcik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2014, 09:47 AM   #67
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,733
Local Time: 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
29% of Earth is land mass. (Large oceans out there)

Of that 29% humans occupy less than 1% of that area.

Of the remaining 28% about 40% is pure wilderness.

14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics.

9% is Antarctica.

Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas.

The earth is doing fine.
Aren't you a teacher? Is this what you're teaching your students?

Appalling.
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 07:28 PM   #68
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Aren't you a teacher? Is this what you're teaching your students?

Appalling.

I teach students to question, think and read.
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 07:41 PM   #69
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,228
Local Time: 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
I teach students to question, think and read.

Practice what you teach.

We've all seen your reading sources, they don't question or think.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 09:47 PM   #70
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Practice what you teach.

We've all seen your reading sources, they don't question or think.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference


Please post a reading source I have quoted or linked
that you think shuts down thought or questions.
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 12:21 AM   #71
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,228
Local Time: 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Please post a reading source I have quoted or linked
that you think shuts down thought or questions.
iron horse,

For years posters have pointed out the flaws in your sources. You always failed to address these posts. It's been a very well documented pattern. I've even tried in PMs. You are incapable of actually addressing the flaws in your sources.

Posters have continually asked you to explain your stance on climate change and you ignore them. You have declared your disdain for science. All you do is post anti-science personal beliefs to support your stance.

If you want a real discussion, you have to start answering questions. The day you answer a question about climate change is the day you gain an ounce of respect again regarding this issue.

Sincerely,

BVS
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 01:01 PM   #72
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17,313
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Please post a reading source I have quoted or linked
that you think shuts down thought or questions.
Please provide a simple mathematical sketch-up that supports your claims.
LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 02:34 PM   #73
The Fly
 
Izzy.nyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 216
Local Time: 03:11 AM
And while you're at it, maybe a simple recipe for apple turnovers.


Soundcloud.com/re2374
Izzy.nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 03:36 PM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,957
Local Time: 08:11 AM
Guys, we're looking at possibly the coldest November on record.

It normally doesn't get THAT cold going into winter. Therefore, it's a hoax.
BEAL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 09:27 PM   #75
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17,313
Local Time: 04:11 AM
I'm writing up a thesis defense presentation right now.

Two of my background slides are...

Measles rates over time versus vaccination rates over time

and...

Diabetes rates over time versus females graduating college over time

I'm really starting to question whether or not more females graduating college are the cause of our increase in diabetes as a nation. Scary thought.





But no really, if you can't supply logic to your argument, don't make your argument.
LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 10:04 PM   #76
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
iron horse,

For years posters have pointed out the flaws in your sources. You always failed to address these posts. It's been a very well documented pattern. I've even tried in PMs. You are incapable of actually addressing the flaws in your sources.

Posters have continually asked you to explain your stance on climate change and you ignore them. You have declared your disdain for science. All you do is post anti-science personal beliefs to support your stance.

If you want a real discussion, you have to start answering questions. The day you answer a question about climate change is the day you gain an ounce of respect again regarding this issue.

Sincerely,

BVS

Ask me a question...one question and I will answer in my own words.
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 11:25 AM   #77
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,066
Local Time: 03:11 AM
facts don't seem to have much weight in a thread like this. perhaps here is why:

Quote:
The varieties of denialism
on OCTOBER 28, 2014
by Massimo Pigliucci

I have just come back from a stimulating conference at Clark University about “Manufacturing Denial,” which brought together scholars from wildly divergent disciplines — from genocide studies to political science to philosophy — to explore the idea that “denialism” may be a sufficiently coherent phenomenon underlying the willful disregard of factual evidence by ideologically motivated groups or individuals.

Let me clarify at the outset that we are not talking just about cognitive biases here. This isn’t a question of the human tendency to pay more attention to evidence supporting one’s view while attempting to ignore contrary evidence. Nor are we talking about our ability as intelligent beings to rationalize the discrepancy between what we want to believe and what the world is like. All of those and more affect pretty much all human beings, and can be accounted for and at the least partially dealt with in the course of normal discussions about whatever it is we disagree about.

Rather, the Oxford defines a denialist as “a person who refuses to admit the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence,” which represents a whole different level of cognitive bias or rationalization. Think of it as bias on steroids.

The conference began exploring the topic of denialism with a delightful keynote by Brendan Nyhan [1] who set the tone with a talk on “The Challenge of Denial: Why People Refuse to Accept Unwelcome Facts.” This was followed by three sessions of three talks each, on Modern Strategies and Rhetoric of Denial, Political Uses of Denial, and Countering Denial: How and When? Hopefully the video of the conference will be available soon, and since contributors were asked to submit a paper to go along with their contribution, hopefully we will soon see an collection in print. I was asked to be on the final panel of the conference, attempting to bring together the several threads I noticed during the main proceedings and offer some general reflections. So the rest of this essay will refer only in passing to my colleagues’ fascinating contributions, and expand instead on the general commentary I offered.

The first two things that became clear during our discussions of denialism are particularly disturbing to me as a scientist and philosopher. First, as a scientist: it’s just not about the facts, indeed — as Brendan showed data in hand during his presentation — insisting on facts may have counterproductive effects, leading the denialist to double down on his belief.

This, of course, should not be taken to mean that the facts don’t matter. If I want to push the idea that climate change is real, or that evolution is a valid scientific theory, or that the Armenian genocide was indeed a genocide, I better get my facts as straight as possible. It’s a pure and simple question of intellectual integrity. But if I think that simply explaining the facts to the other side is going to change their mind, then I’m in for a rude awakening.

That was a lesson I learned many years ago while debating creationists. A debate is a fun event, during which your testosterone is pumped into your veins, which can rally your troops (helping, say, with a fund raising), and which may even grab the attention of fence sitters and others who knew little about the subject matter. What it certainly won’t do is to convince your opponent or any of his committed supporters. Indeed, my best moments as a debater (against Institute for Creation Research’s Duane Gish, or Discovery Institute’s Jonathan Wells) came when I was able to show the audience that these people were consciously lying to them. Nobody likes to be treated as a fool, not even a creationist.

As a philosopher, I found to be somewhat more disturbing the idea that denialism isn’t even about critical thinking. Teaching about logical fallacies isn’t going to do any better than teaching about scientific facts. Indeed, the evidence from the literature is overwhelming that denialists have learned to use the vocabulary of critical thinking against their opponents. To begin with, of course, they think of themselves as “skeptics,” thus attempting to appropriate a word with a venerable philosophical pedigree and which is supposed to indicate a cautiously rational approach to a given problem. As David Hume put it, a wise person (i.e., a proper skeptic) will proportion her beliefs to the evidence. But there is nothing of the Humean attitude in people who are “skeptical” of evolution, climate change, vaccines, and so forth.

Denialists have even begun to appropriate the technical language of informal logic: when told that a majority of climate scientists agree that the planet is warming up, they are all too happy to yell “argument from authority!” When they are told that they should distrust statements coming from the oil industry and from “think tanks” in their pockets they retort “genetic fallacy!” And so on. Never mind that informal fallacies are such only against certain background information, and that it is eminently sensible and rational to trust certain authorities (at the least provisionally), as well as to be suspicious of large organizations with deep pockets and an obvious degree of self-interest.

What then? What commonalities can we uncover across instances of denialism that may allow us to tackle the problem beyond facts and elementary logic? Participants at the conference agreed that what the large variety of denialisms have in common is a very strong, overwhelming, ideological commitment that helps define the denialist identity in a core manner. This commitment can be religious, ethnical or political in nature, but in all cases it fundamentally shapes the personal identity of the people involved, thus generating a strong emotional attachment, as well as an equally strong emotional backlash against critics. Think of Jenny McCarthy’s “I don’t care about science, my son is my science” refrain, or of people who are convinced that leftist environmentalists are out to undermine the American style of life, or of the Turkish government who equates acknowledgement of the Ottoman atrocities against the Armenians as a permanent moral stain on the very idea of a Turkish state, or again of the religious fundamentalist who equates accepting Darwin’s theory with the rejection of the divine, the end of morality and the destruction of any meaning in life. That’s why facts and reason can only do so much (or little) to turn the denialist.

there's more, but i thought the above was helpful.
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 12:23 PM   #78
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Ask me a question...one question and I will answer in my own words.
You get asked questions all the time and don't answer them, and then when it is pointed out to you that you don't answer questions, you indignantly demand we present you with questions. Your cycle is well known to people now, my friend.
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 09:59 PM   #79
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,622
Local Time: 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Ask me a question...one question and I will answer in my own words.
BVS isn't your student, and this is not your classroom, where you can dictate when and how someone may ask you a question.

We're all adults here. A little common courtesy of being at least willing to offer as much as you request from others would be nice.
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2014, 12:54 PM   #80
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
BVS isn't your student, and this is not your classroom, where you can dictate when and how someone may ask you a question.

We're all adults here. A little common courtesy of being at least willing to offer as much as you request from others would be nice.

I apologize if I offended.

My request was not meant to be condescending.
__________________

the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×