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Old 07-13-2015, 11:07 PM   #201
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The climate has been considerably warmer throughout the history of modern life (550 million years) for most of the time than it is today. These were the Greenhouse Ages, often lasting 100 million years or more, when all the land was either tropical or subtropical. Not that many millions of years ago Canada's Arctic islands were covered in sub-tropical forests. There was no ice at either pole. The sea was considerably higher. Life flourished through these times. They will say that humans are not adapted to such a warm climate, ignoring the fact that humans are a tropical species, and would not be able to live where there is frost without fire, clothing, and shelter.

Not gonna go into the rest of the argument which is stupid, but this part is probably the most stupid part. All those other natural climate changes occurred over a period of 10s or 100s of millions of years which allowed animals and plants time to adapt to the new conditions. The climate change we're experiencing has occurred over the past 140 years since the Industrial Revolution. This means that animals don't have time to adapt to the conditions and thus go extinct, greatly harming biodiversity and the rest of the ecosystem.


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Old 07-14-2015, 09:03 AM   #202
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It's cool how this guy says it's no big deal if all our cities are underwater and we don't have the land to support the population, mass extinction of species, death and destruction, etc. Rebuilding human society from scratch? Ehh, whatever, at least a few of us will still be alive, nothing to concern ourselves with at all.

Idiot.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:31 PM   #203
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Okay, I get it.
It seems most here are sold on climate change.

If you would, at least like to read more about those who remain skeptics, why not visit Patrick Moore's homepage? Reading is fun.

From his homepage:

"Dr. Patrick Moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 30 years. He is a founding member of Greenpeace and served for nine years as President of Greenpeace Canada and seven years as a Director of Greenpeace International. As the leader of many campaigns Dr. Moore was a driving force shaping policy and direction while Greenpeace became the world's largest environmental activist organization."
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:38 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Okay, I get it.
It seems most here are sold on climate change.

If you would, at least like to read more about those who remain skeptics, why not visit Patrick Moore's homepage? Reading is fun.

From his homepage:

"Dr. Patrick Moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 30 years. He is a founding member of Greenpeace and served for nine years as President of Greenpeace Canada and seven years as a Director of Greenpeace International. As the leader of many campaigns Dr. Moore was a driving force shaping policy and direction while Greenpeace became the world's largest environmental activist organization."
I'm with you. Just gotta be in the right mood to do battle in here.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:43 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Okay, I get it.

It seems most here are sold on climate change.



If you would, at least like to read more about those who remain skeptics, why not visit Patrick Moore's homepage? Reading is fun.



From his homepage:



"Dr. Patrick Moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 30 years. He is a founding member of Greenpeace and served for nine years as President of Greenpeace Canada and seven years as a Director of Greenpeace International. As the leader of many campaigns Dr. Moore was a driving force shaping policy and direction while Greenpeace became the world's largest environmental activist organization."

If he hasn't been crowned as worthy by the almighty Al Gore, then I don't care what he says.


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Old 07-17-2015, 07:53 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Okay, I get it.

It seems most here are sold on climate change.



If you would, at least like to read more about those who remain skeptics, why not visit Patrick Moore's homepage? Reading is fun.



If you haven't noticed most of those "sold" have done the reading. They have shown they are more well-read on the subject than you over the years.

You happen to have stumbled upon ONE controversial lobbyist.


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Old 07-17-2015, 12:32 PM   #207
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I don't know how effective the little "reading is fun" jab is when it's clear you're not interested in reading the evidence in favor of climate change.
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Old 07-17-2015, 02:33 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Okay, I get it.

It seems most here are sold on climate change.



If you would, at least like to read more about those who remain skeptics, why not visit Patrick Moore's homepage? Reading is fun.



From his homepage:



"Dr. Patrick Moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 30 years. He is a founding member of Greenpeace and served for nine years as President of Greenpeace Canada and seven years as a Director of Greenpeace International. As the leader of many campaigns Dr. Moore was a driving force shaping policy and direction while Greenpeace became the world's largest environmental activist organization."

I'm gonna go with the consensus of 97% of climate scientists rather than one dude. Oh and NASA: http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

"Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position."


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Old 07-17-2015, 02:39 PM   #209
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http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/20...patrick-moore/

Also, he's not a founding member of Greenpeace: "Patrick Moore frequently portrays himself as a founder or co-founder of Greenpeace, and many news outlets have repeated this characterization. Although Mr. Moore played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years, he did not found Greenpeace. Phil Cotes, Irving Stowe, and Jim Bohlen founded Greenpeace in 1970. Patrick Moore applied for a berth on the Phyllis Cormack in March, 1971 after the organization had already been in existence for a year."

Also, he's a paid spokesman for the timber, mining, chemical and the aquaculture industries. He's a paid lobbyist, not an independent source.


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Old 07-17-2015, 04:05 PM   #210
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I understand that not everyone is going to be a scientist, but I still want to repeat myself and say x percent of scientists doesn't mean a lot. Citing one means absolutely nothing on top of that.

The best way to make a point is to research and inform yourself. Hearsay isn't a defense. Defense by popular vote isn't a defense either. Just TRY to understand the science for yourself.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:45 PM   #211
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I understand that not everyone is going to be a scientist, but I still want to repeat myself and say x percent of scientists doesn't mean a lot. Citing one means absolutely nothing on top of that.

The best way to make a point is to research and inform yourself. Hearsay isn't a defense. Defense by popular vote isn't a defense either. Just TRY to understand the science for yourself.

If 97% of the scientists who study a particular topic say something about that topic, that does mean a lot. It means that the people who study this stuff for a living have come to this conclusion. That's a pretty big deal.


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Old 07-17-2015, 05:53 PM   #212
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I'm not disagreeing with the reality that they're correct. I'm disagreeing with the whole "argumentum ad populum" and whatever the logical fallacy title is for hearsay. These aren't legitimate reasons to defend something.

And you don't have to play the card to me about "what they do." Because it's "what I do." Well, it's "what I did." Moved on to something else now.

This argument is going on back and forth. Fallacy versus fallacy. The difference is if you actually do avoid logical fallacies, deniers run out of defense. But in order to actually make them quit with the fallacy, you have to as well. These are simple principles of communication. "97%" means absolutely nothing. What the 97% have said, specifically, is what's important. That's the actual defense. Not their existence by simple population.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:55 PM   #213
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Global Warming Revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
I understand that not everyone is going to be a scientist, but I still want to repeat myself and say x percent of scientists doesn't mean a lot. Citing one means absolutely nothing on top of that.

The best way to make a point is to research and inform yourself. Hearsay isn't a defense. Defense by popular vote isn't a defense either. Just TRY to understand the science for yourself.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent, but I wouldn't say "doesn't mean a lot". This isn't saying "most music critics agree" or "most theologians agree", there's processes, checks and balances, and facts that are coinciding and agreeing with each other.


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Old 07-17-2015, 06:06 PM   #214
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I understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent, but I wouldn't say "doesn't mean a lot". This isn't saying "most music critics agree" or "most theologians agree", there's processes, checks and balances, and facts that are coinciding and agreeing with each other.


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You're right. Perhaps I'm coming off as too critical on my own side, but I'm only doing so as a means of not taking shots at the opposition. Simply because I hate seeing an endless back and forth where neither side wants to consider what the other is saying. I shoot for a different format/platform of discussion just because I know under that format, one side offers something. The other does not.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:44 PM   #215
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I agree


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Old 12-14-2015, 04:38 PM   #216
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This is not satire:

US town rejects solar panels amid fears they 'suck up all the energy from the sun' | Americas | News | The Independent
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:00 PM   #217
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Sounds dangerous
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:10 PM   #218
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But she's a science teacher. See? This consensus is a lie!!!


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Old 12-14-2015, 06:16 PM   #219
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:49 PM   #220
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Hey everyone, the National Review just disproved climate change! Guess we don't have to worry about it anymore!

https://twitter.com/nro/status/676516015078039556

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