George Zimmerman, the killer of young Trayvon Martin, was found 'not guilty'.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

That was actually aimed more at him than you. . .

Fair enough.

It *is* late ...

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Statistics are has-beens. It's important for them, and people in general, to remember that

What a fantastic back and forth between you and Sean. Very inspiring. I love when I go away for a bit and find two or three great pages in a row.

[tim722]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

being a vegetarian is a lifestyle, being gay is not.

i'm sure people know i'm gay, but i can honestly say that i've never felt threatened at all (can't say the same for some of my friends, however, as i know people who have been bashed and physically harassed). but Memphis and i are thick, rock solid men. and we also don't go places where we might feel threatened, and being gay you can usually "pass" if you need to, whereas you really can't hide being black. or white.

You're right on the "vegetarian is a lifestyle, being gay is not" and I apologize. I didn't mean it like that and I understand I was wrong. I can only imagine how you must feel if the wrong group of people realize you're sexuality and choose to take it out on you. It's very real in this country and sad that it is. I wonder who mainstream America has more hatred for. Gay men or Black men?

[tim722]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

We are watching House of Cards right now, 2 episodes from the end.

I think it's a TV show with Kevin Spacey playing a super villain. It's immensely entertaining, but just an entertainment. It's too cartoonishly cynical to be taken as anything else.

Gotta check it out. I love Kevin Spacey. He's a great actor and has been in some great roles.

[tim722]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I fault the GOP for creating various political narratives through which racism -- overt and subtle -- becomes socially acceptable.

I also fault the "war on drugs." Nothing has done more to devastate urban black communities.

I don't see the GOP as creating political narratives to which racism is accepted. I more see the Left as using race as a political rallying tool to energize their base. I asked my black girlfriend about it. She can't stand Sharpton and Jesse and understands their motives. They would be unemployed without racism so they have to accuse it whenever they can. They became rich because of it. She understands their motives and stated that most of her friends who are black understand that Sharpton and Jesse are full of b.s.

Ya the war on drugs was a failure. Free all the crackheads I say.

[tim722]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

But it's quite clear given the politics that govern the base of the GOP that many people have a vested, political, and monetary interest in keeping black Americans a suspect class, and in maintaining an underclass. That won't change, at least not for another generation, or until the GOP becomes something other than a protest movement against all things Obama.

It's not black Americans remaining in the underclass because of the GOP. It's because of the Left keeping them in their system of depending on the government. Welfare, food stamps, section 8, the more babies they have the more they get. Why should they try to improve themselves and get an education? Why work 2080 hrs a year for $50,000 when the gov will give me $40,000.

[digitize]

Originally Posted by tim722

It's not black Americans remaining in the underclass because of the GOP. It's because of the Left keeping them in their system of depending on the government. Welfare, food stamps, section 8, the more babies they have the more they get. Why should they try to improve themselves and get an education? Why work 2080 hrs a year for $50,000 when the gov will give me $40,000.

Why isn't this true for all the working people whose income is in the 50k range (if you think that the government will hand out 40k per year, a claim of which I am skeptical)?

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

Wait, let me get the guitar.

Ready. . .on three. .

1, 2, 3 "Kumbaya, my lord (metaphorically for JT' sake ). . . "

hahahahaha

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by tim722

Why should they try to improve themselves and get an education? Why work 2080 hrs a year for $50,000 when the gov will give me $40,000.

Probably because the government doesn't give you anywhere close to $40k/year on welfare.

[nbcrusader]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

One party race baits and has been very clear that they are after white votes. One party has absolutely used race as a weapon against the first African-American president.

I know this fits the current narrative of the left, but I think you've mixed up the parties here. When universal health care was proposed in the 90's, opposition was not labeled as "sexist" because the most vocal proponent was Hillary Clinton.

For the current administration, opposition to major legislation inevitably gets tagged as racist by some leader on the left. The weapon here is meant to silence valid criticism/debate of political policy.

[nbcrusader]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Probably because the government doesn't give you anywhere close to $40k/year on welfare.

His numbers may be off - but a system that creates multi-generational dependency on government support is no longer a "safety net". And a way to maintain political loyalty.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

His numbers may be off - but a system that creates multi-generational dependency on government support is no longer a "safety net". And a way to maintain political loyalty.

This is indeed the right wing narrative as to why their party has become almost all white and majority male and a way to retain political lotalty through racializes resentment. Non-white Americans are voting for a welfare check, because we are a country if makers (whites) and takers (everyone else).

We'll see how well this narrative seves the GOP in 2016.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by tim722

I don't see the GOP as creating political narratives to which racism is accepted. I more see the Left as using race as a political rallying tool to energize their base. I asked my black girlfriend about it. She can't stand Sharpton and Jesse and understands their motives. They would be unemployed without racism so they have to accuse it whenever they can. They became rich because of it. She understands their motives and stated that most of her friends who are black understand that Sharpton and Jesse are full of b.s.

Ya the war on drugs was a failure. Free all the crackheads I say.

I agree mostly about Sharpton/Jackson, and I don't think they hold much influence like they did in the 1980s.

The war on drugs locked up black men at a disproportionate level for possession of marijuana when white and black rates of drug use are about the same. Walk through any college dormitory in America and you'll likely find much higher rates of marijuana use than in your average inner city black neighborhood. But guess who goes to jail?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by tim722

It's not black Americans remaining in the underclass because of the GOP. It's because of the Left keeping them in their system of depending on the government. Welfare, food stamps, section 8, the more babies they have the more they get. Why should they try to improve themselves and get an education? Why work 2080 hrs a year for $50,000 when the gov will give me $40,000.

The Left "keeps" them there? How?

This narrative was effective when Reagan use it and the racist "welfare queen" stereotype back in the 1980s, but we've had welfare reform since 1996, so I think the right needs a new line of attack, one that isn't so false and offensive.

[nbcrusader]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

The Left "keeps" them there? How?

This narrative was effective when Reagan use it and the racist "welfare queen" stereotype back in the 1980s, but we've had welfare reform since 1996, so I think the right needs a new line of attack, one that isn't so false and offensive.

Have the facts changed or are they still "racist"? I haven't seen news showing a decrease in dependency on government assistance.

Instead of labels, how have things changed, if at all?

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Probably because the government doesn't give you anywhere close to $40k/year on welfare.

Ah yes, the conservative myth of people living high off welfare. How often we have seen it and in so many forms.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

Have the facts changed or are they still "racist"? I haven't seen news showing a decrease in dependency on government assistance.

Instead of labels, how have things changed, if at all?

You don't think the term "welfare queen" is/was racist? Perhaps your distortion is necessary.

Given the enormous growth in inequality since the 1980s due to GOP fiscal policy as well as the Great Recession we were given by totally Republican rule from 2000-2006, it doesn't surprise me that more people need government assistance. Is this shameful? Does this actually cost us a lot of money? Or are the real financial obligations Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, all government assistance programs enjoyed by white people?

I'd ask you to look at the 1990s with its higher tax rates and subsequent booming economy and the rise of the black middle class euro g that decade.

[Irvine511]

Nm.

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

And a way to maintain political loyalty.

Is there any data to back this up? Because in my admittedly anecdotal experience the poor are not a massively powerful voting block. They don't seem particularly engaged in the political process. I know a lot of politically engaged African Americans but they are not dependent on government assistance.

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I agree mostly about Sharpton/Jackson, and I don't think they hold much influence like they did in the 1980s.

Exactly. I'm not sure Sharpton ever had much in the way of influence. He's an attention hound and always has been. He only wishes he had the kind of reach that Limbaugh and his other counterparts on the Right have. He's more famous as the Right's bogeyman than anything else.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Given the enormous growth in inequality since the 1980s due to GOP fiscal policy as well as the Great Recession -

Irvine, both parties have had plenty of involvement in fiscal policy over the last thirty years. Both parties have created the great chasm between the uber-rich and the rest of us (which is becoming a global phenomenon, where the Left leaning parties have held the most control).

Like you - I can't stand the GOP. Unlike you - I can't stand the Democrats either.