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#41 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 36,783
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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Just as long as no one gets raped by wolves, we should be good.
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#42 | ||
Refugee
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,346
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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Almost 1/5 of the population is definitely not some "small percentage." While it may not be representative of the whole, that is a very large section of Muslims that believe in things that completely contradict basic human rights. And this is in more liberal, secular countries, which is most definitely not the norm in the Middle-East. Lets take into account the poll results from some of the other countries BEAL quoted. Turkey: Total Population: 77,695,904 Muslim Population: 99.8% -> 77,540,512 Those who believe in death to Apostates: 17% -> 13,181,887 Malaysia: Pop: 28,334,000 Muslim: 60% -> 17,000,400 Death to Apostates: 62% -> 10,540,248 Afghanistan: Pop: 31,108,077 Muslim: 99.7% -> 17,000,400 Death to Apostates: 79% -> 24,501,655 Egypt: Pop: 84,314,000 Muslim: 90% -> 75,882,600 Death to Apostates: 86% -> 62,259,036 Jordan: Pop: 6,508,887 Muslim: 92% -> 5,988,176 Death to Apostates: 82% -> 4,910,304 Lebanon: Pop: 5,882,562 Muslim: 54% -> 3,176,583 Death to Apostates: 46% -> 1,461,228 Iraq: Pop: 36,000,000 Muslim: 95% -> 34,200,000 Death to Apostates: 42% -> 14,364,000 Now if we add all those up, that's 131,218,35 out of a total Muslim population of around 244,800,000. That is not a small percentage. I don't know how many people were polled, (cite?) so that's probably a lot of extrapolating and not a completely accurate number. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that at least 100 million, close to half the Muslims in these countries hold the kind of beliefs that motivate Islamic terrorism across the globe, and that's a serious problem. That's not Islamaphobia, that's a sad truth. Islam lacks any kind of modern reform, which it so desperately needs. |
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#43 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: mar-a-lago delenda est
Posts: 21,580
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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I'll present to you this counter-point:
So fucking what? What difference does it make that x percentage of people in Malaysia think Islamic apostates should be put to death? You're not a Muslim apostate, this statistic affects you in precisely zero ways, so why are you walking around clutching at pearls over this? Why are you so scared of the Muslim world, 95% of whom (at least) don't really give a fuck either way about "apostates" to do a damn thing about it? I'm sure a large percentage of American Christians feel similarly, and that percentage would undoubtedly be much higher if Christianity was the official religion of the USA. However only a very tiny minority I'm sure would ever actually physically follow through on that thought, the majority either wouldn't care THAT much, at least not enough to actually put a system in place to kill apostates on a wide scale. "But it only takes a couple of them to come over here and kill us" - you are far, FAR more likely to be hit by a bus on the way to work this morning than killed by a terrorist. Why be so terrified about something that has such an astronomical chance of actually happening to you? We didn't react with hysteria the first time a bus ran someone over, we put safety measures in place as much as possible, accepted that some people are going to get hurt from time to time and got on with our lives. So again, I ask you, what difference does it make in your life that Mr and Mrs Mohammed and Ranjaya Sanjit and their son Kamal who live in the suburbs of Karachi think that Muslim apostates should be put to death, as why do you keep posting about it as if it's some grave threat to our existence that we in the west should be running scared from all the time? |
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#44 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,875
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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^
While that may be true, I am more concerned with the treatment of women in Islamic countries and the views of the majority of people there. We in the west have been an UTTER FAILURE when it comes to properly, loudly and consistently criticizing those societies on this particular issue. We, western progressives, get more upset by issues such as employers paying for birth control pills than the fact that women are still stoned to death for adultery, cannot drive, cannot vote, and have almost zero human rights to speak of. |
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#45 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: southwest USA
Posts: 3,302
Local Time: 03:11 PM
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#46 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: mar-a-lago delenda est
Posts: 21,580
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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Indeed, acting like a viewpoint undoubtedly held by a huge number of people in all religions ("converts should be killed") is a grave horrifying threat is pointless. This is the kind of shit that needs to be addressed if Islamic extremism is ever going to be reduced to a negligible point. Moaning about people's thoughts on apostates and heretics is just irrelevant as hell. |
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#47 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 1,792
Local Time: 08:11 PM
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None of this applies to countries like Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Turkey... five countries which account for HALF of the Muslim population in the world by the way. And yes, there is a LOT of room for improvement in these countries when it comes to human rights. But even the majority of human rights violations in these places occur in the rural, uneducated and poor segments of society. I think you'd be surprised by how progressive the educated, urban portions of these societies really are. I say this a lot; education is the silver bullet for this problem. Education and economics. An educated, prosperous Islamic state will be an integrated and harmonious part of the world. The alternative serves as a recruiting pool for the terrorists and nut-jobs. |
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#48 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,875
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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And it's arguable whether this is an "Islamic" problem or a "cultural" problem when the truth is that you can not really separate the two, because an underlying tenet of Islam is that it must permeate the social fabric, which is how each Islamic nation is governed. |
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#49 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Polish-American Stronghold PA
Posts: 4,144
Local Time: 10:11 AM
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Saudis are looking to hire 8 swordsmen for public beheadings. $1000 bucks a head.
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#50 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 1,792
Local Time: 08:11 PM
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And I did actually say that there is a LOT of room for improvement in these countries when it comes to human rights violations. Of course there is. But saying that the problem is Islam is an incredibly reductive way of looking at a very complex issue. |
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#51 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,875
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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#52 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Berlin, Germany.
Posts: 22,280
Local Time: 05:11 PM
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#53 |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 1,792
Local Time: 08:11 PM
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#54 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 1,792
Local Time: 08:11 PM
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Quote:
I just think we need to be more careful with our rhetoric in the current global environment. There is no doubt the Islamic world needs a major overhaul in its institutions and cultural psyche, but I am absolutely certain that the change needs to come from within. The majority of the Muslim world completely rejects the actions and ideology of the lunatics, but it needs to start doing so actively rather than passively now. |
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#55 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: mar-a-lago delenda est
Posts: 21,580
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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#56 | |
Acrobat
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 310
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Notice that most of the countries you site above are Arab countries. This suggest that it is Arab culture and the economic conditions in these countries that have led to the high percentage of support there for these violations of human rights. If the problem was Islam you would find these same percentages in India, Turkey, and Indonesia, but you don't. Remember, there are nearly 2 Billion people that follow Islam worldwide. They should not be painted with the same brush because of the conditions in a few select countries. |
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#57 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,346
Local Time: 11:11 AM
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Quote:
You may not think "death to Apostates" is a big deal, but the point I was making was that Muslims who believe in that are generally the same ones who view women as objects, reject secularism, hate the West, wish death upon those who insult the Prophet, etc. And a lot of those sympathize and support Islamist terror groups. And in this case, two people tried to shoot up (and hilariously failed) a Mohammed cartoon event. So yeah, that's why something as simple as "death to Apostates" matters; it points to a bigger picture, and it's not a good one. |
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