BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I agree with everything here, except the word part...
First "War on Xmas" Thread - We have a winner !
- Thread starter toscano
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I agree with everything here, except the word part...
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I watched the Rockefeller Christmas Tree lighting show last night, NBC is still calling it a Christmas tree. Al Roker said Merry Christmas too at the end, Jane Krakowski then said Happy Holidays. So it was all covered. Miley Cyrus sang Rocking Around The Christmas Tree, not holiday tree. I changed the channel when those Jonas Brothers were on-so they might be pc, I don't know.
Here's an interesting idea on how to handle Christmas - this coming from a Catholic priest!
Beliefnet presents Father James Martin on Christmas, Advent season, Advent Conspiracy - Beliefnet.com
Beliefnet presents Father James Martin on Christmas, Advent season, Advent Conspiracy - Beliefnet.com
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Bill O'Reilly has this this year
U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I watched 5-10 mins of O'Reilly last night and in that time, I swear to you, he brought up a nativity scene issue.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
It's that time of year again...
Her name's even Merry
Huffington Post
The Tea Party movement is supposed to be all about keeping the government out of your business. But if some California members get their way, the state will force public schoolchildren to sing Christmas carols.
It's called the "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School Classrooms or Assemblies" initiative.
Merry Hyatt, a substitute teacher and member of the Redding Tea Party Patriots, is behind the push. The Redding Searchlight reports:
The initiative would require schools to provide children the opportunity to listen to or perform Christmas carols, and would subject the schools to litigation if the rule isn't followed.
Schools currently are allowed to offer Christmas music as long as it is used for academic purposes rather than devotional purposes and isn't used to promote a particular religious belief, according to an analysis by the California Legislative Analyst's Office.
Parents are allowed to have their students opt out of the caroling if they express that desire in advance.
"We were having Christmas without Jesus," Hyatt complained of her previous school district.
The initiative has the support of the local Tea Party Patriots president.
"Bottom line is Christmas is about Christmas," said Erin Ryan, president of the Redding Tea Party Patriots. "That's why we have it. It's not about winter solstice or Kwanzaa. It's like, 'Wow you guys, it's called Christmas for a reason.' "
So much for limited government?
Taking that Christmas Spirit to the People
Joe Mathews -
September 8, 2009 - 5:06pm
Move over, Denver extraterrestrial commission initiative. We have a new contender for initiative of the year.
Today a brother and sister, David Joseph Hyatt and Merry Susan Hyatt (and yes, that's how she spells her first name, and there's no story behind it, she says), filed a ballot initiative at the attorney general's office that is entitled, "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School School Classrooms or Assemblies."
Your blogger, who enjoys caroling and attended a junior high that required everyone to sing "Let There Peace On Earth" at the end of the holiday pageant, was unaware that Christmas music was under threat. If so, the people should rise to the occasion and defend it. "Each public elementary and second school shall provide opportunities to its pupils for listening to or performing Christmas music at an appropriate time of year," says the measure. That may sound compulsory, but the initiative also requires schools to give parents three weeks' notice of Christmas music, and to allow them to opt out of having their children be a part of it.
When I reached Merry Hyatt by phone in Redding this afternoon, she explained that at her previous school district in California (she's a substitute teacher who lived in Riverside County but recently moved north), songs with specific Christmas content were barred from the holiday party. "We were having Christmas without Jesus," she says, which was just silly. She was unaware of any specific law or rule prohibiting them, but "people were just guessing that they shouldn't do it."
Hyatt said she didn't have "any money," much less the $2 million it typically costs to qualify for the measure. "I’m just going to have to go to the churches and do it for free," she told me.
Her name's even Merry
Huffington Post
The Tea Party movement is supposed to be all about keeping the government out of your business. But if some California members get their way, the state will force public schoolchildren to sing Christmas carols.
It's called the "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School Classrooms or Assemblies" initiative.
Merry Hyatt, a substitute teacher and member of the Redding Tea Party Patriots, is behind the push. The Redding Searchlight reports:
The initiative would require schools to provide children the opportunity to listen to or perform Christmas carols, and would subject the schools to litigation if the rule isn't followed.
Schools currently are allowed to offer Christmas music as long as it is used for academic purposes rather than devotional purposes and isn't used to promote a particular religious belief, according to an analysis by the California Legislative Analyst's Office.
Parents are allowed to have their students opt out of the caroling if they express that desire in advance.
"We were having Christmas without Jesus," Hyatt complained of her previous school district.
The initiative has the support of the local Tea Party Patriots president.
"Bottom line is Christmas is about Christmas," said Erin Ryan, president of the Redding Tea Party Patriots. "That's why we have it. It's not about winter solstice or Kwanzaa. It's like, 'Wow you guys, it's called Christmas for a reason.' "
So much for limited government?
Taking that Christmas Spirit to the People
Joe Mathews -
September 8, 2009 - 5:06pm
Move over, Denver extraterrestrial commission initiative. We have a new contender for initiative of the year.
Today a brother and sister, David Joseph Hyatt and Merry Susan Hyatt (and yes, that's how she spells her first name, and there's no story behind it, she says), filed a ballot initiative at the attorney general's office that is entitled, "Freedom to Present Christmas Music in Public School School Classrooms or Assemblies."
Your blogger, who enjoys caroling and attended a junior high that required everyone to sing "Let There Peace On Earth" at the end of the holiday pageant, was unaware that Christmas music was under threat. If so, the people should rise to the occasion and defend it. "Each public elementary and second school shall provide opportunities to its pupils for listening to or performing Christmas music at an appropriate time of year," says the measure. That may sound compulsory, but the initiative also requires schools to give parents three weeks' notice of Christmas music, and to allow them to opt out of having their children be a part of it.
When I reached Merry Hyatt by phone in Redding this afternoon, she explained that at her previous school district in California (she's a substitute teacher who lived in Riverside County but recently moved north), songs with specific Christmas content were barred from the holiday party. "We were having Christmas without Jesus," she says, which was just silly. She was unaware of any specific law or rule prohibiting them, but "people were just guessing that they shouldn't do it."
Hyatt said she didn't have "any money," much less the $2 million it typically costs to qualify for the measure. "I’m just going to have to go to the churches and do it for free," she told me.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Tea "partiers" keeping the word 'hypocrite' alive 
Kieran McConville
ONE love, blood, life
exterminate the enemies of Christmas!
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
In this socialist atheist country no one is ever taking issue with "Frohe Weihnachten" or nativity scenes etc. 
A stor
Refugee
Bravo! Well said. I am also a Christian.
I agree. Commercialization is not what Christmas is about. For me, it is a Holy Day. I attend church. Which, I also do through out the year. And I reflect on the teachings of Christ. I remember a priest at my church said to us once. "If you really want to celebrate Christmas, don't put up a tree, don't put up holiday lights, snowmen, etc. And don't buy or ask for gifts. Instead, give that money to those, who need it more than you do.
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I'm a Christian, but for me Christmas is primarily a secular holiday.
DrTeeth
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Shouldn't he know better that this is extremely stupid? Just substitute atheist with black, would he still believe the same? Or does it only apply to those who don't share the believe in god?
Reminds me of Almighty Quin.
A stor
Refugee
You are right..it has become that. Though, I am the first to admit. I love buying presents for my family and friends. Since, all of us are working class. These gifts are much appreciated. I don't mind if non-christians want to celebrate Christmas. By wishing good will toward their fellow man/woman/child and exchange gifts, decorate, etc. It is their free choice. And this freedom is what makes, many of our countries, great.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Christian Group Launches New Attack on Christmas Commercialism - Yahoo! News
By AMY SULLIVAN / WASHINGTON Amy Sullivan / Washington – Tue Dec 15, 3:10 am ET
If it's December, then there must be frost in the air, gingerbread in the oven, and ... right on time, Bill O'Reilly and the other defenders of Christmas bemoaning the prevalence of "Happy Holidays" - rather than "Merry Christmas" - greetings.
There's a war on Christmas, O'Reilly recently reminded viewers, driven by those who "loathe the baby Jesus." This season, a holiday-dÉcor company is marketing the CHRIST-mas Tree, a bushy artificial tree with a giant cross where the trunk should be. And the Colorado-based Focus on the Family is continuing its Stand for Christmas campaign to highlight the offenses of Christmas-denying retailers. The campaign was launched, according to its website, because "citizens across the nation were growing dissatisfied with the tendency of corporations to omit references to Christmas from holiday promotions." (See TIME's photoessay "Have a Very Ridiculous Christmas.")
But to a growing group of Christians, this focus on the commercial aspect of Christmas is itself the greatest threat to one of Christianity's holiest days. "It's the shopping, the going into debt, the worrying that if I don't spend enough money, someone will think I don't love them," says Portland pastor Rick McKinley. "Christians get all bent out of shape over the fact that someone didn't say 'Merry Christmas' when I walked into the store. But why are we expecting the store to tell our story? That's just ridiculous."
McKinley is one of the leaders of an effort to do away with the frenzied activity and extravagant gift-giving of a commercial Christmas. Through a savvy viral video and marketing effort, the so-called Advent Conspiracy movement has exploded. Hundreds of churches on four continents and in at least 17 countries have signed up to participate. The Advent Conspiracy video has been viewed more than a million times on YouTube and the movement boasts nearly 45,000 fans on Facebook. Baseball superstar Albert Pujols is a supporter - he spoke at a church event in St. Louis to endorse the effort. (See TIME's video "Bethlehem's Complicated Christmas.")
In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.
The idea for their own war on Christmas came to McKinley four years ago, when he was sitting around with some of his pastor friends and they realized they were all dreading Christmas. "None of us like Christmas," he says, adding, "That's sort of bad if you're a pastor." Instead of helping their congregations focus on the season of Advent and prepare to celebrate the birth of Christ, the pastors found themselves competing with a secular consumerism that made December the hardest time to make their message heard.
So McKinley and his friends decided to try a radical experiment. They urged congregants to spend less on presents for friends and family, and to consider donating some of the money they saved as a result. At first, church members weren't quite sure how to react. "Some people were terrified," remembers McKinley. "They said, 'My gosh, you're ruining Christmas. What do we tell our kids?'" The pastors had to reassure people that they weren't advocating a Grinchy no-gifts kind of Christmas, but rather one in which people spent a little less and thought a little more, expressing their love through something more meaningful than a gift card. Once church members adjusted to this new conception of Christmas, they found that they loved it. Many, in fact, seemed relieved to be given permission to slow down and buy less. (Read "A Brief History of 'The War on Christmas'")
In many ways, the Advent Conspiracy movement has appropriated some of the traditional arguments of the conservative Christians who see themselves as defenders of Christmas. A popular rallying cry of the foot soldiers in the war on Christmas is, "Jesus is the reason for the season." Often, however, it seems that being able to score a half-price Nintendo DSi and a "Merry Christmas" from the checkout clerk is the real prize. The Religious Right has spent decades casting secular culture as the enemy. And yet instead of critiquing the values of the consumer marketplace, many conservative Christians have embraced it as the battleground they seek to reclaim.
A movement like the Advent Conspiracy is countercultural on two fronts - not just fighting the secular idea that Christmas is a month-long shopping and decorating ritual, but the powerful conservative notion that the holiday requires acknowledgement from the nation's retailers to be truly meaningful. It's not easy, says one youth pastor whose church is part of the Advent Conspiracy. "When you start jacking with people's idea of what Christmas is and you start to go against this $450 billion machine of materialism and consumerism, it really messes with people," he explains. "It takes a lot of patience to say there's a different way - Christmas doesn't have to be like this."
By AMY SULLIVAN / WASHINGTON Amy Sullivan / Washington – Tue Dec 15, 3:10 am ET
If it's December, then there must be frost in the air, gingerbread in the oven, and ... right on time, Bill O'Reilly and the other defenders of Christmas bemoaning the prevalence of "Happy Holidays" - rather than "Merry Christmas" - greetings.
There's a war on Christmas, O'Reilly recently reminded viewers, driven by those who "loathe the baby Jesus." This season, a holiday-dÉcor company is marketing the CHRIST-mas Tree, a bushy artificial tree with a giant cross where the trunk should be. And the Colorado-based Focus on the Family is continuing its Stand for Christmas campaign to highlight the offenses of Christmas-denying retailers. The campaign was launched, according to its website, because "citizens across the nation were growing dissatisfied with the tendency of corporations to omit references to Christmas from holiday promotions." (See TIME's photoessay "Have a Very Ridiculous Christmas.")
But to a growing group of Christians, this focus on the commercial aspect of Christmas is itself the greatest threat to one of Christianity's holiest days. "It's the shopping, the going into debt, the worrying that if I don't spend enough money, someone will think I don't love them," says Portland pastor Rick McKinley. "Christians get all bent out of shape over the fact that someone didn't say 'Merry Christmas' when I walked into the store. But why are we expecting the store to tell our story? That's just ridiculous."
McKinley is one of the leaders of an effort to do away with the frenzied activity and extravagant gift-giving of a commercial Christmas. Through a savvy viral video and marketing effort, the so-called Advent Conspiracy movement has exploded. Hundreds of churches on four continents and in at least 17 countries have signed up to participate. The Advent Conspiracy video has been viewed more than a million times on YouTube and the movement boasts nearly 45,000 fans on Facebook. Baseball superstar Albert Pujols is a supporter - he spoke at a church event in St. Louis to endorse the effort. (See TIME's video "Bethlehem's Complicated Christmas.")
In the past four years, Advent Conspiracy churches have donated millions of dollars to dig wells in developing countries through Living Water International and other organizations. McKinley likes to point out that a fraction of the money Americans spend at retailers in the month of December could supply the entire world with clean water. If more Christians changed how they thought about giving at Christmas, he argues, the holiday could be transformative in a religious and practical sense.
The idea for their own war on Christmas came to McKinley four years ago, when he was sitting around with some of his pastor friends and they realized they were all dreading Christmas. "None of us like Christmas," he says, adding, "That's sort of bad if you're a pastor." Instead of helping their congregations focus on the season of Advent and prepare to celebrate the birth of Christ, the pastors found themselves competing with a secular consumerism that made December the hardest time to make their message heard.
So McKinley and his friends decided to try a radical experiment. They urged congregants to spend less on presents for friends and family, and to consider donating some of the money they saved as a result. At first, church members weren't quite sure how to react. "Some people were terrified," remembers McKinley. "They said, 'My gosh, you're ruining Christmas. What do we tell our kids?'" The pastors had to reassure people that they weren't advocating a Grinchy no-gifts kind of Christmas, but rather one in which people spent a little less and thought a little more, expressing their love through something more meaningful than a gift card. Once church members adjusted to this new conception of Christmas, they found that they loved it. Many, in fact, seemed relieved to be given permission to slow down and buy less. (Read "A Brief History of 'The War on Christmas'")
In many ways, the Advent Conspiracy movement has appropriated some of the traditional arguments of the conservative Christians who see themselves as defenders of Christmas. A popular rallying cry of the foot soldiers in the war on Christmas is, "Jesus is the reason for the season." Often, however, it seems that being able to score a half-price Nintendo DSi and a "Merry Christmas" from the checkout clerk is the real prize. The Religious Right has spent decades casting secular culture as the enemy. And yet instead of critiquing the values of the consumer marketplace, many conservative Christians have embraced it as the battleground they seek to reclaim.
A movement like the Advent Conspiracy is countercultural on two fronts - not just fighting the secular idea that Christmas is a month-long shopping and decorating ritual, but the powerful conservative notion that the holiday requires acknowledgement from the nation's retailers to be truly meaningful. It's not easy, says one youth pastor whose church is part of the Advent Conspiracy. "When you start jacking with people's idea of what Christmas is and you start to go against this $450 billion machine of materialism and consumerism, it really messes with people," he explains. "It takes a lot of patience to say there's a different way - Christmas doesn't have to be like this."
Thanks for the article nathan1977. I've always thought that consumerism was the one really destroying Christmas rather than secularism. It is those who celebrate Christmas who have turned it into a materialist holiday.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Secularism is its own separate issue, but it seems foolish to me to shove Christmas down people's throats when the only thing it means is acquiring new junk.
Or worse, Jesus junk.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i think the secularization and commercialization of Christmas makes everything so much prettier.
i love all the lights and wreaths and trees this time of year.
and that's what Christmas means to me.
i love all the lights and wreaths and trees this time of year.
and that's what Christmas means to me.
I like them, too.
But I also despise how the holiday season can be about waiting outside of Best Buy at 5am after Thanksgiving to get the sales or rushing into Walmart and trampling people to death. Some people seem to forget that Christmas is about celebrating something religious and/or spiritual. Instead, they are worshiping materialism.
phillyfan26
Blue Crack Supplier
- Joined
- May 7, 2006
- Messages
- 30,343
I like everything about Christmas except going to mass, oddly enough.
But the most important thing is being able to, on back to back days, see the members of both sides of my large extended family due to everyone getting off of work, including my father, who works 12 hour days and is rarely ever off of work.
I don't buy things, so the material aspect of Christmas means little to me.
But the most important thing is being able to, on back to back days, see the members of both sides of my large extended family due to everyone getting off of work, including my father, who works 12 hour days and is rarely ever off of work.
I don't buy things, so the material aspect of Christmas means little to me.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Updated December 10, 2009
By Todd Starnes
- FOXNews.com
A Republican lawmaker with a mission to save Christmas is aiming his latest salvo at President and first lady Obama, who've followed in a recent tradition to eliminate the mention of Christmas in the White House holiday cards.
The card selected by the Obamas announces: "Season's Greetings." Inside, it reads: "May your family have a joyous holiday season and a new year blessed with hope and happiness."
But Rep. Henry Brown, R-S.C., said abandoning Christmas at Christmas is just plain wrong. On Tuesday, he introduced a resolution calling for the protection of the sanctity of Christmas. So far, 44 lawmakers, Democrat and Republican, have co-signed the bill.
"I believe that sending a Christmas card without referencing a holiday and its purpose limits the Christmas celebration in favor of a more 'politically correct' holiday," Brown told Fox News Radio on Thursday.
"This kind of reproach is exactly what my Christmas resolution, introduced to the House of Representatives earlier this week, is against as the resolution expresses support for the use of Christmas symbols and traditions and disapproval of all attempts to ban or limit references to Christmas," he added.
Presidents have been sending holiday cards since 1953. The White House told Fox News Radio that the Obamas are celebrating Christmas this year but they recognize that other Americans are celebrating other holidays this time of year and their holiday card reflects that idea.
The president is not breaking new ground. In 2008, President George W. Bush's card made no reference to Christmas. However, the president did include a passage from the New Testament, Matthew 5:16.
"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Democratic National Committee spokesman Hari Sevugan said the White House card aims to be inclusive.
"Like previous administrations, including President George W. Bush's, their holiday card offers the season's greetings to everyone who receives it," he said.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State added that it's unfair to target the president for not offering Christmas-specific greetings.
"People who somehow think Barack Obama is part of the so-called 'War against Christmas' ought to realize that for the past few years it was George Bush leading the charge against it," Lynn said.
"It makes perfectly good sense for a president of all the people, all the 2,000 different religions and the 20 million non-believers in this country, to send out a card that says this is a good, happy time of year but without referring to any one specific religion."
The Obamas' Christmas card was paid for and distributed by the DNC -- and the cards are now in the mail.
By Todd Starnes
- FOXNews.com
A Republican lawmaker with a mission to save Christmas is aiming his latest salvo at President and first lady Obama, who've followed in a recent tradition to eliminate the mention of Christmas in the White House holiday cards.
The card selected by the Obamas announces: "Season's Greetings." Inside, it reads: "May your family have a joyous holiday season and a new year blessed with hope and happiness."
But Rep. Henry Brown, R-S.C., said abandoning Christmas at Christmas is just plain wrong. On Tuesday, he introduced a resolution calling for the protection of the sanctity of Christmas. So far, 44 lawmakers, Democrat and Republican, have co-signed the bill.
"I believe that sending a Christmas card without referencing a holiday and its purpose limits the Christmas celebration in favor of a more 'politically correct' holiday," Brown told Fox News Radio on Thursday.
"This kind of reproach is exactly what my Christmas resolution, introduced to the House of Representatives earlier this week, is against as the resolution expresses support for the use of Christmas symbols and traditions and disapproval of all attempts to ban or limit references to Christmas," he added.
Presidents have been sending holiday cards since 1953. The White House told Fox News Radio that the Obamas are celebrating Christmas this year but they recognize that other Americans are celebrating other holidays this time of year and their holiday card reflects that idea.
The president is not breaking new ground. In 2008, President George W. Bush's card made no reference to Christmas. However, the president did include a passage from the New Testament, Matthew 5:16.
"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Democratic National Committee spokesman Hari Sevugan said the White House card aims to be inclusive.
"Like previous administrations, including President George W. Bush's, their holiday card offers the season's greetings to everyone who receives it," he said.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State added that it's unfair to target the president for not offering Christmas-specific greetings.
"People who somehow think Barack Obama is part of the so-called 'War against Christmas' ought to realize that for the past few years it was George Bush leading the charge against it," Lynn said.
"It makes perfectly good sense for a president of all the people, all the 2,000 different religions and the 20 million non-believers in this country, to send out a card that says this is a good, happy time of year but without referring to any one specific religion."
The Obamas' Christmas card was paid for and distributed by the DNC -- and the cards are now in the mail.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
He wants to control the kind of cards the president sends out? For fuck sake, I thought Republicans were for freedom? Hypocrisy at it's finest...
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Festivus is tomorrow-so prepare your grievances
BonosSaint
Rock n' Roll Doggie
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,566
A holiday we can all get behind. I've been preparing my grievances all year.
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
merry christmas, everyone.
and if anyone has a problem with that, i'll be happy to perform a living autopsy on them with a pitchfork... use their kidneys for cufflinks.
and a happy new year, too. a religious new year, i mean.
and if anyone has a problem with that, i'll be happy to perform a living autopsy on them with a pitchfork... use their kidneys for cufflinks.
and a happy new year, too. a religious new year, i mean.
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
Well a happy Christmas to you too
Jive Turkey
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
- Messages
- 13,645
This headline made me chuckle. Some sort of tradition that I've never heard of?
Woman knocks down pope at Mass; Christmas celebrations begin
Woman knocks down pope at Mass; Christmas celebrations begin
