Extremists open fire at Paris satirical newspaper, kill 12

[cobl04]

Charlie Hebdo shooting: twelve dead at Paris offices of satirical magazine – live updates | World news | The Guardian

you keep telling yourself they won't win. and they won't. but that sick feeling to your stomach returns.

 

[liamcool]

 

[bono_212]

I saw you on Twitter, and thought you may have started a thread.

I woke up sick in the middle of the night. I was just about to go back to sleep, when I saw the story on my Twitter widget.

I'm feeling absolutely gutted over this, but I really hope that when I wake up again in a few hours, satirical websites the world over respond. I don't want anyone to think for a second that senseless violence will silence anyone.

 

[cobl04]

this is immaterial because people are fucking dead, but it is so soul-destroying that satire is what caused it. absolutely nothing should be above satire.

gonna go to sleep now and view the shitfight in the morning.

ps cannot believe how many reputable news people/sources are sharing the videos.

 

[bono_212]

I don't know that it's immaterial, I think that's sort of the point as to why there is just no place for this kind of reaction in the world. But I get what you mean.

 

[liamcool]

We didn't even make it a fucking week.

 

[liamcool]

This week's Charlie Hebdo even condemned Michel Houellebecq, an anti-Islamic author with a new publication satirising France under an Islamic president. See here.

 

[mama cass]

This week's Charlie Hebdo even condemned Michel Houellebecq, an anti-Islamic author with a new publication satirising France under an Islamic president. See here.

"condemned" is totally incorrect - Charlie Hebdo doesn't "do" condemnation, particularly against freedom of speech - it's a satirical magazine ffs - Houellebecq has a new book coming out and is simply fair game...


I am utterly devastated by this news... Charlie Hebdo is a French institution, fearless, genius and adored

Kalashnikovs against cartoons? fucking cowards!!

 

[Irvine511]

 

[Diemen]

A good comment from over on Metafilter:

Remember. The enemy of the extremist isn't the opposite extremist, it's the moderate. This sort of thing is done to provoke an extreme reaction to move the moderates to the extreme. These guys *actively want* war, but they're not going to get it with "Great Satan" talk. They are banking on an overreaction, which will drive more Islamic moderates towards the extremist position, and more French moderates to the "Islam is Evil Must Destroy" extreme.

When everybody's an extremist, then you can start really fighting.

The right answer is to handle this as a police matter. The wrong answer is to handle it as a military matter and create ISIS mark II.

Salman Rushdie also weighed in:

Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

Hope the cowards responsible are brought to justice.

 

[anitram]

Devastating.

I do think that the west has been somewhat dishonest about discussing Islamic movements in general and are a bit too quick at the trigger to declare who we think does and does not represent them. Just an observation.

 

[Teta040]

Bravo, Diemen.....well-said...or rather, well-quoted.

 

[last unicorn]

What a horrible attack on the FREEDOM of each and every one of us.

https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/552891202983309313

 

[corianderstem]

This is very upsetting.

 

[deep]

What a horrible attack on the FREEDOM of each and every one of us.

no attack on my freedom at all

I do think it is terrible and condemn the killers

on a lesser level the killers only followed the golden rule and the cartoonists did not

 

[BoMac]

Reports are that the three gunmen, aged 18, 32, and 34 (including two brothers) have been arrested.

 

[deep]

I hope they got the rocket-launcher, too.

 

[deep]

.

 

[mama cass]

Reports are that the three gunmen, aged 18, 32, and 34 (including two brothers) have been arrested.

No, they've just been identified and possibly located...

 

[mama cass]

deep, Charlie Hebdo satirizes everything and everyone, all politicians, all religions, but normally no-one else attempts to kill anyone over it

 

[DaveC]

no attack on my freedom at all

You aren't a fan of freedom of expression?

on a lesser level the killers only followed the golden rule and the cartoonists did not

Please explain what you mean by this.



Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[mama cass]

Please explain what you mean by this.

i think i'd rather he didn't

 

[BoMac]

No, they've just been identified and possibly located...

Liberation was the first to report the arrests, but have since backtracked on that.

 

[mama cass]

Liberation was the first to report the arrests, but have since backtracked on that.

 

[deep]

You aren't a fan of freedom of expression?

drawing those kind of cartoons is like yelling FIRE in a crowded theater
it contributes to the harm that follows, if the people in the theater had not reacted that way no one would have been trampled.

Please explain what you mean by this.

what is the golden rule?
One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. something like that?

these killers are true believers that want anyone killed that blasphemes The Prophet. If any member of their family or if they themselves ever did that they 100% believe they should be killed. They treat others as they would want others to threat them. They also do not disrespect other religions and expect others to do the same.

The cartoonists did not follow the Golden Rule.

They knew their actions would harm and injure others is that how they wanted to be treated?

 

[mama cass]

drawing those kind of cartoons is like yelling FIRE in a crowded theater
it contributes to the harm that follows, if the people in the theater had not reacted that way no one would have been trampled.



what is the golden rule?
One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. something like that?

these killers are true believers that want anyone killed that blasphemes The Prophet. If any member of their family or if they themselves ever did that they 100% believe they should be killed. They treat others as they would want others to threat them. They also do not disrespect other religions and expect others to do the same.

The cartoonists did not follow the Golden Rule.

They knew their actions would harm and injure others is that how they wanted to be treated?

in which country does that law apply? France is a secular country and holds freedom of expression dear (which includes the right to ridicule and be irreverent) and, above all, does not abide by the laws of Islam... if you went down THAT slippery slope, where would you draw the line?

and L.O.L. at your "They also do not disrespect other religions" comment

how about Salman Rushdie? Did he not follow your Golden Rule?

utter bollox, sorry Deep

 

[deep]

deep, Charlie Hebdo satirizes everything and everyone, all politicians, all religions, but normally no-one else attempts to kill anyone over it

The first thing I wrote is that I condemn the killers.

I am not a fan of any religion. There are a lot more serious problems with Islam in some countries than being able to publish highly offensive cartoons.

Defending these cartoons works against furthering more important things like education for girls, and advancing women's rights.

 

[deep]

in which country does that law apply? France is a secular country and holds freedom of expression dear (which includes the right to ridicule and be irreverent) and, above all, does not abide by the laws of Islam... if you went down THAT slippery slope, where would you draw the line?

I am not saying it should be outlawed, there are lots of things that are allowed but rarely done

why print demeaning images that offend people just because you can?

 

[mama cass]

you're talking about a radical minority deep...

Heads of the Muslim councils in France have strongly condemned the attack (as have many Islamic states) and an Imam in France has even gone so far as to say that the killers have not avenged the prophet Mohammed (which the attackers were claiming to do) but rather the "prophet Satan"

This is as much an attack on the Muslim communities who are living peacefully here, not just on the press...

 

[PhilsFan]

An absolute tragedy and a disgrace. Deeply saddening and troubling. Just getting a chance to read all about this now and it's just awful.

We should note that it's hard to talk about a story like this without addressing the rampant Islamophobia in France, and we need to remember that satire can still be racist. Freedom of speech is extremely important. But there's a responsibility we need to make sure we have when employing satire, and from what I've read Charlie Hebdo may have shirked that responsibility. Am I saying they deserved any of this? Hell fucking no. But in describing this as a tragedy, it's probably important not to jump "This is a tragedy that never should have happened" to "This is a tragedy that never should have happened, and I fully support Charlie Hebdo because they satirized everyone."