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Old 08-16-2013, 05:00 AM   #1
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Egyptian Violence

Egyptian Violence

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A Bible Society of Egypt statement posted online Wednesday reported the "complete burning and destruction" of its bookshops in the cities of Assiut and Minia, in southern Egypt.
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Where they burn books, at the end they also burn people. Heinrich Heine
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:33 AM   #2
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I'm starting to have the feeling that these middle eastern riots are starting to show a major divide between east and west. It's rather telling how all these years the poor nations were supported by do gooders from the west, instead of the oil rich nearby middle eastern nations. And now they're at war they suddenly come out and support the muslim parts of the countries?

Maybe I'm a bit radical in this, but to be honest, I think it's best if 'we' as the west stopped interfering with these countries. Stop paying them money, it's rather obvious that a western democracy idea isn't going to work for these countries.
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:47 AM   #3
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Maybe I'm a bit radical in this, but to be honest, I think it's best if 'we' as the west stopped interfering with these countries. Stop paying them money, it's rather obvious that a western democracy idea isn't going to work for these countries.
I agree. They don't trust or even like us anyway, so why bother? Just step in for humanitarian reasons, like if Egypt really gets into a civil war like Syria.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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Amnesty calls on government to protect Christians in Egypt - Daily News Egypt
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:13 PM   #5
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According to the report, 38 churches have been attacked and completely destroyed across Egypt and 23 churches have been partially damaged, with 21 of the attacks combined occurring in Al-Minya, where the situation is exceptionally bad, as reported by Amnesty.
If these were mosques in a "Christian" or secular nation - the Left would be going nuts. Why the Left seems so enamored with Islam is something I will never understand. I am thankful the Amnesty International is bringing this some attention.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:50 PM   #6
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If these were mosques in a "Christian" or secular nation - the Left would be going nuts. Why the Left seems so enamored with Islam is something I will never understand. I am thankful the Amnesty International is bringing this some attention.


You have no basis to make this claim whatsoever.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:04 AM   #7
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You have no basis to make this claim whatsoever.
Did you watch any of the Christ Hitchens video's that were posted over the past few weeks?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:34 AM   #8
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Did you watch any of the Christ Hitchens video's that were posted over the past few weeks?


what does that have to do with what you said?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:39 AM   #9
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what does that have to do with what you said?
He takes issue with the fact the liberal media capitulates to Islam (BTW - Hitchens is no Conservative). And I think the relative quietness about the Egyptian church burnings prove him right (along with the general "religion of peace" talking points that JT pointed out that thread).
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:03 AM   #10
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He takes issue with the fact the liberal media capitulates to Islam (BTW - Hitchens is no Conservative). And I think the relative quietness about the Egyptian church burnings prove him right (along with the general "religion of peace" talking points that JT pointed out that thread).

What would be an appropriate level of loudness? And how can you compare that to a "can you imagine" conjecture, as well as the working assumption about the boogeyman "liberal media."

I know all about Hitchens.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
What would be an appropriate level of loudness? And how can you compare that to a "can you imagine" conjecture, as well as the working assumption about the boogeyman "liberal media."

I know all about Hitchens.
If you can learn to take a more balanced view - you will see the lies of both sides. Don't be a pawn.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:18 AM   #12
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"Wake up, sheeple."

I don't get this "The Left is so enamoured with Islam" bit, much less do I understand what "The Left" is supposed to be, is it just an alternate name for left liberals?

For what it's worth, I'm not enamoured with Islam, or with any religion for that matter, this matter is not purely black and white.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:51 AM   #13
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If you can learn to take a more balanced view - you will see the lies of both sides. Don't be a pawn.

You mean like you do?

I hardly think I'm less informed than you.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:55 AM   #14
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If these were mosques in a "Christian" or secular nation - the Left would be going nuts. Why the Left seems so enamored with Islam is something I will never understand. I am thankful the Amnesty International is bringing this some attention.
It's so ironic given the fact that most of those that built the left wing media boogeyman syndrome would place AI in that "Left" category.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
You mean like you do?

I hardly think I'm less informed than you.
Do you have any views that would be considered Right wing? Perhaps I missed those posts.

If not, then I would tend to think, even with all the information you've collected, you're point of view is not exactly "balanced".
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:46 AM   #16
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It's so ironic given the fact that most of those that built the left wing media boogeyman syndrome would place AI in that "Left" category.
I'm not referring directly to the media here )though they are part of this) - but to most liberal teachers, politicians, public debaters...etc. It seems rather apparent they are more quick to defend Islam than to condemn it - even though Islam stands against just about everything the Left endorses.

The Right is guilty of the same things, but on different issues (like their strange defense of the super wealthy and gun control)
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:44 AM   #17
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Do you have any views that would be considered Right wing? Perhaps I missed those posts.

If not, then I would tend to think, even with all the information you've collected, you're point of view is not exactly "balanced".


i don't make false equivocations. or feel the need to adopt a certain position in the interest of trying to appear as if i'm balanced.

simply being balanced doesn't mean you are informed. it's helpful to see all sides of an issue and to understand different lines of thought, but that doesn't mean all lines of thought are of equal quality.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:51 AM   #18
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I'm not referring directly to the media here )though they are part of this) - but to most liberal teachers, politicians, public debaters...etc. It seems rather apparent they are more quick to defend Islam than to condemn it - even though Islam stands against just about everything the Left endorses.

The Right is guilty of the same things, but on different issues (like their strange defense of the super wealthy and gun control)


and this seems to be a good example of bad thinking and false equivocation. you can't even name your opponents, or give clear examples of what it is you're talking about.

you just have this feeling, don't you, that we're nicer to the Muslims than we are to the Christians, and that there are only two options: defend or condemn Islam.

the consistency of the Left is that we believe in secularism -- which enables all people to practice their beliefs right up until the point where one's beliefs infringe upon the rights of others. i will defend your right to your belief that a marriage is only between a man and a woman, but you cannot use that belief to reduce my rights. likewise, there's a lot in Islam i find crazy, there's a lot in Mormonism i find side-splittingly hilarious, there's a lot in Catholicism that's idiotic. but what i defend is not these beliefs but the right to hold them.

and given the laws passed against the apparently existential threat of Sharia Law (!!!) in southern states like NC or OK, it really does seem to me that in this country people really are out to get Muslims in general. i think the Left has a natural reaction to preserving the rights of minorities because many of us well know what it's like to be persecuted by the majority.

in other countries it's a different story when it comes to who is the minority, and i'm aware of issues regarding the Christians of Egypt. in addition, i've posted about the hanging of gay teens in Iran, and the treatment of women in the Muslim world in general.

what else do you want from me, and from others on what you believe makes up the amorphous blob you call "the Left"?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #19
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what else do you want from me, and from others on what you believe makes up the amorphous blob you call "the Left"?
You can plug in the term "liberal" if you want. I didn't know that you were offended by the term, "Left." I suppose I would want some consistency - as I mentioned above, and again below.

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and this seems to be a good example of bad thinking and false equivocation. you can't even name your opponents, or give clear examples of what it is you're talking about.
I think my point is more about the absence of outcry - hence the lack of examples. In fact, it is the lack of examples which is the evidence.

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you just have this feeling, don't you, that we're nicer to the Muslims than we are to the Christians, and that there are only two options: defend or condemn Islam.
You do come across a bit seething here, if so - please take a breath and calm down and not take these discussions so personally. From my "bad thinking" brain - it does seem difficult to see how a "liberal" could defend an ideology that would essentially wipe them out if they had the chance. The examples are the Muslim dominated countries in the Middle East (with a few exceptions).

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the consistency of the Left is that we believe...
Why is it you feel you can lump yourself into this "amorphous blob" you call "the Left" - and yet you're offended when others identify you as such? I'm simply trying to use shared terminology in order to have a discussion.

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secularism -- which enables all people to practice their beliefs right up until the point where one's beliefs infringe upon the rights of others
And how well is that going in the Middle East?

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and given the laws passed against the apparently existential threat of Sharia Law (!!!) in southern states like NC or OK, it really does seem to me that in this country people really are out to get Muslims in general. i think the Left has a natural reaction to preserving the rights of minorities because many of us well know what it's like to be persecuted by the majority.
Perhaps they want to let the Muslims that are in those states know that Sharia Law has no chance of taking hold there.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:14 PM   #20
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I think my point is more about the absence of outcry - hence the lack of examples. In fact, it is the lack of examples which is the evidence.
what kind of an outcry would satisfy you, especially given that over 1000 people have been killed in the streets of Cairo during the past week or so. that seems to have dominated the news -- it's not that there's a spate of church burnings, but that there's widespread violence in Egypt and church burnings are one aspect of that violence.

you're trying to prove some sort of double standard here, but this is apples to oranges. it's two totally different countries.



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You do come across a bit seething here, if so - please take a breath and calm down and not take these discussions so personally. From my "bad thinking" brain - it does seem difficult to see how a "liberal" could defend an ideology that would essentially wipe them out if they had the chance. The examples are the Muslim dominated countries in the Middle East (with a few exceptions).
again: no one is (necessarily) defending an ideology, but, at least in the US, the RIGHT TO HOLD AN IDEOLOGY.




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And how well is that going in the Middle East?
not well? i'm talking about the US.


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Perhaps they want to let the Muslims that are in those states know that Sharia Law has no chance of taking hold there.
right. there is no chance. it's not a concern. it never was, never has been and never will be.

and yet, there's a need to pass a law? it's eerily similar to the "gay propaganda" law in Russia. it's the scapegoating of a minority in order to create a feeling of crisis and solidarity among a small group of people.
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