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Old 07-29-2010, 11:19 AM   #81
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I see this a lot too, though like you, I see it more with kids outside of the black community. It's not like the kids are all awful they just treat their parents in a way--lots of eyerolling, backtack, sarcasm--that I would never have dreamed of with my own mom, and it wasn't like I was scared of her or anything. I was just raised with this idea that there was a certain way you treated your parents. It seems like a lot of kids these days don't have that idea.

Any thoughts on this?
That's exactly what I saw. Even though I grew up in a rough neighborhood, we never rolled our eyes, mouthed off, and stuff. Like Lies, I've never once yelled "I hate you!" to my parents. But then when we moved, we moved to a middle-class, predominantly white neighborhood, and just about everyone I knew did that. I would show more respect to my friends' parents than they would. It was odd. I just don't think that's appropriate.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:24 AM   #82
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As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand. Nowadays, I could never say that because I know it would hurt them. I guess that comes with maturity and perspective, something many teens lack.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:30 AM   #83
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As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand. Nowadays, I could never say that because I know it would hurt them. I guess that comes with maturity and perspective, something many teens lack.
I will grant that when I was in third grade and called my mom an ass just to see what would happen and I got one of the only three spankings I got once we left my dad, that lesson did stick.

Not that I was scared as a teenager of getting spanked, but more that that lesson was so deeply engrained in me--that long after corporal punishment ceased to be an issue I knew that speaking to my mom in that manner was absolutely unacceptable.

I guess that's how I think spanking should be applied. So rarely for only the most serious of issues so that whatever happens to cause the punishment never happens again, and the message sticks with you for a lifetime. I might put it this way--if, your child when he or she is an adult won't be able to recall exactly what they were spanked for then you've probably spanked too much.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:31 AM   #84
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Eh, maybe. But even in such an open world, I think there should still be a place for basic respect, courtesy.


of course, it's not an either/or proposition. it's an overall trend.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:33 AM   #85
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As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand.


but is this a good thing? respect through fear?
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:41 AM   #86
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but is this a good thing? respect through fear?
As I mentioned in the first post, my parents were pre-Baby Boomers. They came from a generation where it was OK to spank or even smack your kids around when they misbehaved or were disrespectful.

But was it a good thing that I grew up afraid of my parents? I think parents who instill respect through fear are insecure and are emotionally immature as parents. They are so frightened of their kids taking control of the house, or are unable to control their emotions. I'm sure every parent feels the need to hit their kids as a knee-jerk reaction whenever their kids do something really awful. But the good ones control their emotions. The others aren't able to do so, and someone gets hurt.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:43 AM   #87
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but is this a good thing? respect through fear?
I was afraid of my father. I did not--and do not-- respect him.

I was never, ever afraid of my mother.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:33 PM   #88
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i think kids are raised differently today, mostly because the world has changed.

punishment exists in order to enforcing rule, and i think the rules, today, are much more in negotiation and contextualized than they were 100 years ago. 100 years ago, if you were (likely) born on a farm, you followed the safety rules or else your arm got chopped off by farm equipment. life was generally harsher, death was much more a part of everyday life (whether from disease or injury), and thus children had to be kept in line because the consequences for errant behavior were far more severe than they are today. your job as a parent was to keep your children alive, not to nurture their intellect or value their individuality. it wasn't necessary for children to think, speak, have opinions, and be valued for their own personalities, and parents probably weren't as interested in shaping and molding dynamic creatures who would become the repository of their (possibly shattered) hopes and dreams.

today, it's a different world. creativity, individuality, negotiation, emotional intelligence, reasoning -- these are far more valued skills than they were 100 years ago, and strict adherence to a predetermined set of rules are not. values change, and so does parenting adapt. we generally want people to seek their own answers, to find their own path, to think their own thoughts, to speak up, and to speak out, and to speak for themselves. while a lot of that takes the form of sass/sarcasm/disrespect in modern teenagers, i think it's important to note that every pushback against a parent is an attempt to form an independent identity. that sass might one day become the voice of a lawyer, or a journalist, or just some really awful housewife on a reality show. you never know.

human consciousness has changed in the past 100, 500, 1000 years. and it will continue to do so.
Great post. You know, I'm getting slightly tired of this 'teenagers are brats these days' thesis, some of which I've seen creeping into some of the other posters' contributions on this thread. Last time I checked, the adults, the people who actually run the world, particularly the pre baby-boom generation, the baby boom generation, and even our own generation of thirtysomethings (scarily, we're now in charge, or soon will be) haven't done a spectacularly competent job of managing the world. I don't have kids, but if one day I do, I'd like to think that I'd raise them with a challenging, questioning mentality.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:48 PM   #89
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My favorite high school teacher taught honers english. She was a tough as nails, but she prepared me for college.
oh the irony
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:31 PM   #90
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:35 PM   #91
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Great post. You know, I'm getting slightly tired of this 'teenagers are brats these days' thesis, some of which I've seen creeping into some of the other posters' contributions on this thread. Last time I checked, the adults, the people who actually run the world, particularly the pre baby-boom generation, the baby boom generation, and even our own generation of thirtysomethings (scarily, we're now in charge, or soon will be) haven't done a spectacularly competent job of managing the world. I don't have kids, but if one day I do, I'd like to think that I'd raise them with a challenging, questioning mentality.
Really? Are we reading the same thread? Because I went back and read through the recent posts and I saw far more criticism of adults than kids. And who has suggested that kids shouldn't ask questions or challenge the status quo?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:56 PM   #92
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Really? Are we reading the same thread? Because I went back and read through the recent posts and I saw far more criticism of adults than kids. And who has suggested that kids shouldn't ask questions or challenge the status quo?
I really have no interest in a row, my opinion is simply that a parent or teacher assaulting kids is not likely to be an effective form of discipline; at worst it may potentially damage them psychologically or physically, at best, based partially on direct experience as I posted before, it probably doesn't work - but, anyway, the thread I was reading was the one where you said:

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I guess that's how I think spanking should be applied. So rarely for only the most serious of issues so that whatever happens to cause the punishment never happens again, and the message sticks with you for a lifetime.
Not singling you out, there were a few other posts in similar vein.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:55 PM   #93
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I really have no interest in a row, my opinion is simply that a parent or teacher assaulting kids is not likely to be an effective form of discipline; at worst it may potentially damage them psychologically or physically, at best, based partially on direct experience as I posted before, it probably doesn't work - but, anyway, the thread I was reading was the one where you said:



Not singling you out, there were a few other posts in similar vein.
I'm not spoiling for a fight either. I agree 100% with you that a parent or teacher assualting kids is neither effective nor right. That you're drawing the exact opposite conclusion about my views means that you're really not understanding what I'm saying at all. And that's fine. I can accept that; I ain't mad at ya
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #94
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i do think kids are brattier these days, but many of the characteristics of the brat -- questioning authority, not taking "no" for an answer, a belief in the self, confidence -- while they make for irritating kids, these are qualities that are more likely to help you be successful in the modern world than being submissive, soft-spoken, insecure, rule adhering, and more concerned with the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

if we could divide these lines so cleanly.

of course there are downsides to being a brat -- it's awfully disconcerting when you get out into the "real world" and no one cares about your opinions or thoughts and they want you to just shut up and do your job, for now -- and there's a sense of entitlement that likely needs to be beaten (metaphorically) out of you, which it probably will, but in the long run, self-confidence and a belief in one's own self-worth and the willingness to find one's own answers, when tempered with maturity and good humor and respect for others, will probably get you further.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #95
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oh the irony
As the plot thickens.....

Thanks for making me laugh! You have a great sense of humor.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:47 PM   #96
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This is just my two cents.

I have raise a son and have a wonderful relationship with my daughter. I chose through marriage. I'm not perfect, far from it. But, I have always treated my children and other family members with love and respect. Sure, we had set limits. We were very clear as to what you can do and what is not acceptable. My husband and I never spanked either child. We did our best to set a good example.

If you want your child to be polite, then you have to be polite and etc.

Another point, tell your children that you love them and love is not giving them free reign to engage activities that will harm them. Spend time with them. Let them know that you trust and believe in them. And finally, give them roots and wings.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:31 PM   #97
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And finally, give them roots and wings.
And this is the ultimate balancing act...

It's a line that's almost impossible to define.
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:45 AM   #98
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roots.....a family that loves them

wings....the ability to pursue their dreams
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:03 AM   #99
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^ and don't be a "helicopter" parent...drives me nuts!!!
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:15 PM   #100
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As the plot thickens.....

Thanks for making me laugh! You have a great sense of humor.
Good to see you've got one too
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