toscano
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I'm sure there wouldn't be for this guy either if he bombed his own Government's building
Failing miserably to see the McVey parallel I'm afraid.......
Compassionate Release For Lockerbie Bomber
- Thread starter MrsSpringsteen
- Start date
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I'm sure there wouldn't be for this guy either if he bombed his own Government's building
Failing miserably to see the McVey parallel I'm afraid.......
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
He's saying that because McVeigh was put to death, there's no chance of a hero's welcome.
toscano
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yeah.......but you could have said that about anyone who had been executed, why McVey ? Who would be giving him a hero's welcome ? And is that being proposed as the basis for deciding when to take a life ? "this guy might get a hero's welcome when he gets out, kill him"
daygloeyes2
Blue Crack Addict
Did you read where I said that I didn't think he should have been released?
And yes, I agree that a hero's welcome for a convicted terrorist is disgusting. But that doesn't make me want to support the death penalty.
popshopper
Acrobat
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The death penalty is not and never has been a deterrent. Homicide rates are roughly the same on average in US states which have capital punishment and those which don't. There are a couple of arguments supporting capital punishment but the deterrent argument has always been a fallacy. If the threat of spending the rest or majority of the rest of your life in Prison isn't enough, spending 20 years on Death row then dying isn't exactly a major threat either. The numbers do not support capital punishment as a deterrent.
kramwest1
has a
Thank you for pointing that out.
Also, McVey wanted to be executed, which is exactly the reason he shouldn't have been. Let him rot in solitary.
When cost of appeals are factored in, it can be more expensive to execute someone that is to sentence them to life with no chance of parole.
These guys have some great research on the "fairness" of the U.S. judicial process:
The Sentencing Project Home
Mark
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
actually, i'd say they're probably on average worse. i'm pretty sure Texas has a much higher murder rate than Massachusetts.
but the problem, of course, is not just that it isn't a deterrent at all, but the availability of guns.
OP
OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
By VICTOR EPSTEIN and SAMANTHA HENRY, Associated Press Writers – Mon Aug 24
ENGLEWOOD, N.J. – Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi will set foot on U.S. soil for the first time next month when he comes to address the U.N. General Assembly. Now he wants to put down stakes in the middle of American suburbia.
Plans to set up a tent and allow him to stay at a Libyan-owned estate in this upscale community 12 miles north of Manhattan, were attacked Monday by neighborhood residents and public officials, particularly after the hero's welcome extended by Libya last week to the lone man convicted in the 1988 bombing of Pan American Flight 103.
The attack over Lockerbie, Scotland, thought to be the work of Libyan intelligence, killed all 259 people on board the flight, including 33 from New Jersey. Abdel Baset al-Megrahi was freed from a life sentence in a Scottish jail and returned to Libya on compassionate grounds because he is dying of cancer.
"Gadhafi is a dangerous dictator whose hands are covered with the blood of Americans and our allies," said U.S. Rep. Steve Rothman, whose district includes Englewood. He promised there would be "hell to pay" if the U.S. State Department violates a long-standing deal barring the dictator from staying at the Libyan estate.
State department officials said no decision had been made on the issue.
Rothman was mayor of Englewood 26 years ago when the city learned the Libyan Mission to the United Nations had purchased the Palisade Avenue estate. He said local officials worked out a deal with the U.S. State Department limiting its use to the recreational activities by the ambassador and his family. The Libyans don't pay taxes on the estate, he said.
Gadhafi's U.N. appearance culminates a yearslong effort to rehabilitate the Libyan strongman's international image, which has included denouncing terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. He's ruled the oil rich North African kingdom since 1969.
"This is what happens when you have the path of appeasement," Susan Cohen, of Cape May Court House, New Jersey, said of the prospect of Gadhafi staying in Englewood. "He's getting everything he wants, and I guess that includes a trip to the state of New Jersey, which certainly doesn't need this."
Cohen's 20-year-old daughter died in the Scottish bombing.
Englewood is an upscale community of 28,000 residents that's located about 12 miles north of Manhattan. About 15 percent are Jewish, according to Rothman.
Shmuley Boteach, an orthodox Jewish rabbi, family counselor and star of the mainstream television series "Shalom in the Home," lives next door to the Libyan estate. He said the mansion has been renovated over the past three months with nearly 100 people working there.
He was initially supportive of the idea of Gadhafi coming to the U.S., but that changed after the release of al-Megrahi.
"I don't want him as a neighbor," said Boteach. "The events of the past few days have changed everything. Gadhafi has shown his true colors."
Bob Monetti of Cherry Hill, N.J., whose 20-year-old son died in the bombing, said allowing Gadhafi to stay in New Jersey would make it more difficult to live with what's happened.
"When he's in his tent in the desert in Libya he's a distant character that we can hate at arm's length, but when he comes to New Jersey, it just means he's on our home turf, and we don't want him on our home turf," he said.
In Washington, U.S. officials said Englewood was one option the Libyans were looking at to pitch the tent after their request to set it up New York's Central Park had been denied due to logistics and security concerns.
"We have been talking to the U.N. about this issue, we've been talking to the New York City authorities about the issue of where Mr. Gadhafi is going to stay, but no decisions have been made," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said Monday. "No decision has been made about where anybody's going to pitch a tent."
Ahmed Gebreel, a spokesman for the Libyan Mission to the United Nations in Manhattan, did not return a reporter's phone call for this story.
However, Nicole DiCocco, spokeswoman for the Libyan Embassy in Washington, D.C., confirmed that the Libyan government owns the property in Englewood and it's a possible site for Gadhafi. She said that he would not live in the tent, but use it for entertainment purposes.
"We own the residence in Englewood, but it hasn't been confirmed that he'll be staying there," DiCocco said.
U.S. Sen Frank Lautenberg has asked the State Department to limit Gadhafi's travel in the U.S. to the U.N. headquarters district.
ENGLEWOOD, N.J. – Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi will set foot on U.S. soil for the first time next month when he comes to address the U.N. General Assembly. Now he wants to put down stakes in the middle of American suburbia.
Plans to set up a tent and allow him to stay at a Libyan-owned estate in this upscale community 12 miles north of Manhattan, were attacked Monday by neighborhood residents and public officials, particularly after the hero's welcome extended by Libya last week to the lone man convicted in the 1988 bombing of Pan American Flight 103.
The attack over Lockerbie, Scotland, thought to be the work of Libyan intelligence, killed all 259 people on board the flight, including 33 from New Jersey. Abdel Baset al-Megrahi was freed from a life sentence in a Scottish jail and returned to Libya on compassionate grounds because he is dying of cancer.
"Gadhafi is a dangerous dictator whose hands are covered with the blood of Americans and our allies," said U.S. Rep. Steve Rothman, whose district includes Englewood. He promised there would be "hell to pay" if the U.S. State Department violates a long-standing deal barring the dictator from staying at the Libyan estate.
State department officials said no decision had been made on the issue.
Rothman was mayor of Englewood 26 years ago when the city learned the Libyan Mission to the United Nations had purchased the Palisade Avenue estate. He said local officials worked out a deal with the U.S. State Department limiting its use to the recreational activities by the ambassador and his family. The Libyans don't pay taxes on the estate, he said.
Gadhafi's U.N. appearance culminates a yearslong effort to rehabilitate the Libyan strongman's international image, which has included denouncing terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. He's ruled the oil rich North African kingdom since 1969.
"This is what happens when you have the path of appeasement," Susan Cohen, of Cape May Court House, New Jersey, said of the prospect of Gadhafi staying in Englewood. "He's getting everything he wants, and I guess that includes a trip to the state of New Jersey, which certainly doesn't need this."
Cohen's 20-year-old daughter died in the Scottish bombing.
Englewood is an upscale community of 28,000 residents that's located about 12 miles north of Manhattan. About 15 percent are Jewish, according to Rothman.
Shmuley Boteach, an orthodox Jewish rabbi, family counselor and star of the mainstream television series "Shalom in the Home," lives next door to the Libyan estate. He said the mansion has been renovated over the past three months with nearly 100 people working there.
He was initially supportive of the idea of Gadhafi coming to the U.S., but that changed after the release of al-Megrahi.
"I don't want him as a neighbor," said Boteach. "The events of the past few days have changed everything. Gadhafi has shown his true colors."
Bob Monetti of Cherry Hill, N.J., whose 20-year-old son died in the bombing, said allowing Gadhafi to stay in New Jersey would make it more difficult to live with what's happened.
"When he's in his tent in the desert in Libya he's a distant character that we can hate at arm's length, but when he comes to New Jersey, it just means he's on our home turf, and we don't want him on our home turf," he said.
In Washington, U.S. officials said Englewood was one option the Libyans were looking at to pitch the tent after their request to set it up New York's Central Park had been denied due to logistics and security concerns.
"We have been talking to the U.N. about this issue, we've been talking to the New York City authorities about the issue of where Mr. Gadhafi is going to stay, but no decisions have been made," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said Monday. "No decision has been made about where anybody's going to pitch a tent."
Ahmed Gebreel, a spokesman for the Libyan Mission to the United Nations in Manhattan, did not return a reporter's phone call for this story.
However, Nicole DiCocco, spokeswoman for the Libyan Embassy in Washington, D.C., confirmed that the Libyan government owns the property in Englewood and it's a possible site for Gadhafi. She said that he would not live in the tent, but use it for entertainment purposes.
"We own the residence in Englewood, but it hasn't been confirmed that he'll be staying there," DiCocco said.
U.S. Sen Frank Lautenberg has asked the State Department to limit Gadhafi's travel in the U.S. to the U.N. headquarters district.
RedRocksU2
Blue Crack Addict
No mercy. He should have been executed a long time ago.
Can you imagine being a family member of the kids that died in that plane? Just thing about that.
toscano
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Tough to do in a country with no death penalty.
Still, good to see that bloodlust is alive and well in a "Christian" country.
Some of the victims' families actually agreed with the release.
OP
OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Plenty of Christians don't support the death penalty, under any and all circumstances. I don't think he should have been executed because I don't support it at all. But I also think the least that could be done now for these families is to not have Gadhafi staying at that estate. They've suffered enough and that's hardly too much to ask for.
popshopper
Acrobat
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In the Lockerbie case, the following from 2001 offers a pretty good synopsis of the problems with the original case and why the UK government wished the appeal to be stopped. The primary reason behind the release. Megrahi was forced to give up his appeal in order to be released, and was initially refused trial by jury, but instead had a trial in front of hand-picked judges. Having read the case and the available court transcripts, it's very unlikely that jury would have found him guilty. This is also one of the main reasons that the UK based families of the victims have long been campaigning for a public inquiry.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/27/lockerbie.features11
The hope of the UK government was that this would all go away with the minimum of fuss upon his release, the events on his arrival in Libya have put pay to that.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/27/lockerbie.features11
The hope of the UK government was that this would all go away with the minimum of fuss upon his release, the events on his arrival in Libya have put pay to that.
toscano
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Well CLEARLY there's no ambiguity and no chance AT ALL that he's 100% guilty, hang him high.......
The Death Penalty really IS the way to go, wrongful convictions just don't happen.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
now this
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
why wasn't he put to death? what a waste on society.
killiescot
Babyface
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Obviously no thought has been given to the feelings of George Bush's family.
the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
The Birmingham Six and Guildford Four also, yes?
Appeals to sentimentality are a poor basis for discussion.
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
i drove through lockerbie last week. true story.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
I think we've invaded far more countries that don't have oil.
This is how you do it.
Ill Manson follower Susan Atkins denied parole - Yahoo! News
This is how you do it.
Ill Manson follower Susan Atkins denied parole - Yahoo! News
Kieran McConville
ONE love, blood, life
On the whole, gang, this sort of stuff betrays a worrying lack of pragmatism. One can worry about the 'wrong messages' until the cows come home. The fact remains that, innocent or guilty as charged, the man concerned will apparently die soon. In prison or in his country of origin. Nobody now dead will be brought back to life.
That is my first and last word on the subject.
That is my first and last word on the subject.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
toscano
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40 Civilians killed today in Afghanistan by a US airstrike, what about their families ? I'm sure we're not in a hurry to hand over those responsible.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
The Germans called in that strike. War is hell, flying home from London shouldn't be.
toscano
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Is Germany at war with afghanistan ?
These people were flying home too.......but then again they were brown-skinned.
Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
George Washington is a prime example.
HyperU2
War Child
No I guess Germany isn't at war with Afghanistan, they just have troops fighting there.
News flash, we're not at war with Afghanistan either, we're on their team.There is good reason that flight got shot down, you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between wartime confusion and intentional bombing of civilians.
You support the Lockerbie bombing then?
toscano
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No I guess Germany isn't at war with Afghanistan, they just have troops fighting there.
There is good reason that flight got shot down, you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between wartime confusion and intentional bombing of civilians.
You support the Lockerbie bombing then?
No, I don't.
But I get a real kick out of the hypocrisy and double standards.
HyperU2
War Child
Well it's not exactly the same sort of situation. By far.
