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Old 10-04-2010, 07:20 PM   #81
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I've seen Dan on TV before. Always enjoyed his viewpoints.

Yeah. Sorry, that whole argument doesn't really hold water anymore. My grandparents used to be similar-they certainly never wished black people ill will, never wanted any harm to come to them, didn't march with the KKK or whatnot. They just, you know, didn't want to interact with them any more than they absolutely had to. Nowadays we'd decry that mindset swiftly, I'm not sure why we still hold reserve when it comes to homosexuality.

I'm glad that woman is fully on board that what happened to that young man was horrible. I would expect any person with any sense of reason and sanity to be sympathetic to and disturbed by that situation. But Dan's right-her views do not help the situation at all. If she truly feels that nobody is better than anyone else, that we're all imperfect and yada, yada, yada, then why frown on the idea of gay marriage at all? I don't get that.

Besides that, in regards to her comment about his supposed hypocrisy-well, you can choose your faith. You can't choose who you fall in love with. There's a difference. That, and I'll gladly show respect to anyone who has respect for other people. Not supporting gay marriage, to me, seems a disrespectful position to take.

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Old 10-04-2010, 07:26 PM   #82
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Besides that, in regards to her comment about his supposed hypocrisy-well, you can choose your faith. You can't choose who you fall in love with.
No, because we are all created in God's image, so why would God create such imperfect beings like homosexuals? It's impossible to comprehend that He would do such a thing.

Therefore, the only sane conclusion is that being gay is a choice rather than genetic. So with that in mind, anyone that's tired of the derogatory comments, the bigotry, the dehumanizing behaviour, can very simply stop being gay. That's all there is to it! No need for such despair.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:31 PM   #83
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I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by my comments.

No, wait. I'm not. Gay kids are dying. So let's try to keep things in perspective: fuck your feelings.

A question: do you support atheist marriage? Interfaith marriage? Divorce and remarriage? All legal, of course, and there's no Christian movement to deny marriage rights to atheists or people marrying outside their respective faiths or to people divorcing and remarrying. Why the hell not?
So, if you're against gay marriage you're a murderer. But what about the gay people that are themselves against gay marriage? Are they murderers too?

See, frankly, the above quote to me is precisely the type of over-the-top take-no-prisoners style of hyperbole that gives the US gay rights movement a bad name. Savage basically takes an opportunity for dialogue into an opportunity to scream insults.

Why is it that in Ireland gay civil marriage is now legal yet in the US the 'debate' continues, with the two sides flinging insults at each other? Could it be because the Irish gay rights movement is less strident, doesn't exploit suicides (and we don't even know why the student killed himself) for political reasons and that that approach actually works better?
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:08 PM   #84
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does the Irish right wing react with the same apocalyptic vitriol that the American right wing does?
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:52 AM   #85
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At least five gay teens have committed suicide within the same week that Tyler did

Parents: Bullying drove Cy-Fair 8th-grader to suicide | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle



Asher Brown's worn-out tennis shoes still sit in the living room of his Cypress-area home while his student progress report — filled with straight A's — rests on the coffee table.

The eighth-grader killed himself last week. He shot himself in the head after enduring what his mother and stepfather say was constant harassment from four other students at Hamilton Middle School in the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District.

Brown, his family said, was "bullied to death" — picked on for his small size, his religion and because he did not wear designer clothes and shoes. Kids also accused him of being gay, some of them performing mock gay acts on him in his physical education class, his mother and stepfather said.

The 13-year-old's parents said they had complained about the bullying to Hamilton Middle School officials during the past 18 months, but claimed their concerns fell on deaf ears.

David and Amy Truong said they made several visits to the school to complain about the harassment, and Amy Truong said she made numerous phone calls to the school that were never returned.

Cy Fair ISD officials said Monday that they never received any complaints from Brown's parents before the suicide about the way the boy was being treated at school.

School district spokeswoman Kelli Durham, whose husband Alan Durham is a Hamilton assistant principal, said no students, school employees or the boy's parents ever reported that he was being bullied.

That statement infuriated the Truongs, who accused the school district of protecting the bullies and their parents.

"That's absolutely inaccurate — it's completely false," Amy Truong said. "I did not hallucinate phone calls to counselors and assistant principals. We have no reason to make this up. … It's like they're calling us liars."

David Truong said, "We want justice. The people here need to be held responsible and to be stopped. It did happen. There are witnesses everywhere."

Numerous comments from parents and students on the Web site of KRIV-TV Channel 26, which also reported a story about Brown's death, stated that the boy had been bullied by classmates for several years and claimed Cy-Fair ISD does nothing to stop such harassment.

Durham said the school counselor and an assistant principal received an e-mail from Amy Truong earlier this month, asking them to keep an eye on her son, but Durham said it was because of ongoing concerns at home and not about bullying.

Brown was found dead on the floor of his stepfather's closet at the family's home in the 11700 block of Cypresswood about 4:30 p.m. Thursday. He used his stepfather's 9 mm Beretta, stored on one of the closet's shelves, to kill himself. He left no note. David Truong found the teen's body when he arrived home from work.

On the morning of his death, the teen told his stepfather he was gay, but Truong said he was fine with the disclosure. "We didn't condemn," he said.

His parents said Brown had been called names and endured harassment from other students since he joined Cy-Fair ISD two years ago. As a result, he stuck with a small group of friends who suffered similar harassment from other students, his parents said.

His most recent humiliation occurred the day before his suicide, when another student tripped Brown as he walked down a flight of stairs at the school, his parents said.

When Brown hit the stairway landing and went to retrieve his book bag, the other student kicked his books everywhere and kicked Brown down the remaining flight of stairs, the Truongs said.

Durham said that incident was investigated, but turned up no witnesses or video footage to corroborate the couple's claims.

The Truongs say they just want the harassment to stop so other students do not suffer like their son did and so another family does not have to endure such a tragedy.

"Our son is just the extreme case of what happens when (someone is) just relentless," Amy Truong said.

To the bullies, she added, "I hope you're happy with what you've done. I hope you got what you wanted and you're just real satisfied with yourself."

Services for Brown will be held Saturday.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #86
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Where are the parents of these bullying children? Where were the parents of the kids at Rutgers?
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:23 PM   #87
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does the Irish right wing react with the same apocalyptic vitriol that the American right wing does?
To be fair, no. The Irish Catholic right-wing has been largely emasculated due to the child abuse scandals, and other issues.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:58 PM   #88
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Have you guys been seeing these celebrity PSAs? There have been a bunch of 'em. Celebs making short video messages reaching out to gay youth, urging them to stay strong, letting them know that it gets better, etc.

Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17. It certainly got better for him. Dude could probably buy a few small countries at this point.

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:01 PM   #89
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Where are the parents of these bullying children? Where were the parents of the kids at Rutgers?


Martha. That is exactly what I was thinking.

I lost a very good friend of mine. During our college years. He was "gay" and blew his brains out with a gun.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:00 AM   #90
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Where are the parents of these bullying children? Where were the parents of the kids at Rutgers?
What do you expect them to do? It sounds to me like quite a few of the ones who have commited suicide have had their parents support.

It's society that needs to change. It's really depressing to think that it's come to this.

I would just like to know why two 13 year olds have commited suicide. Honestly, I'd expect someone of that age to draw a gun on someone else before they draw it on themselves. Consideirng they were only 13, dont you think that it either must have been really bad bullying or really overly dramatic handling of the situation or maybe they were influenced by the other suicides?

I mean... how can a 13 year old, who likely just entered puberty, decide they are gay, come out of the closet that fast, and have enough bullying to want to commit suicide? Seems awfully quick...

I'd say each suicide is influencing the next.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:58 AM   #91
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Yeah-certainly the bullying isn't helping one bit and just added to the hell these kids are going through to where they're killing themselves so young, but I have to think there's other factors that would be in play, too. History of depression or things of that nature in the family, the family itself can sometimes be tormentors before the kids even encounter other members of society, etc., etc. I've always understood it that there's never one specific thing that drives people to suicide, it seems to be a multitude of problems building up, and then there's an event that's just the final straw. Tons of kids all over the country get bullied day in and day out and don't resort to suicide, so I have to imagine there's other factors at play that are causing this to happen, and the bullying's just part of the fuel on the fire.

Whatever the reasons, these stories are horrific and something desperately needs to be done to stop this, no question.

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Where are the parents of these bullying children? Where were the parents of the kids at Rutgers?
I suspect some of them probably do a lot of bullying themselves.

Angela
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:28 AM   #92
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What do you expect them to do? It sounds to me like quite a few of the ones who have commited suicide have had their parents support.

Reread my post you actually quoted. I said bullying children, bot bullied children.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:30 AM   #93
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I suspect some of them probably do a lot of bullying themselves.
I would guarantee it.

And they bully the members of the "lame-ass" educational system that try to stop their kids.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:39 AM   #94
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I would just like to know why two 13 year olds have commited suicide. Honestly, I'd expect someone of that age to draw a gun on someone else before they draw it on themselves. Consideirng they were only 13, dont you think that it either must have been really bad bullying or really overly dramatic handling of the situation or maybe they were influenced by the other suicides?
What makes you believe that 13 year olds are more likely to take out their depression outwardly rather than inwardly?


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I mean... how can a 13 year old, who likely just entered puberty, decide they are gay, come out of the closet that fast, and have enough bullying to want to commit suicide? Seems awfully quick...

I'd say each suicide is influencing the next.
Did you decide you were straight at age 14?

I seriously doubt that each suicide is influencing the next.

Do you really think it matters if the child was gay, straight, out of the closet, or in the closet? The last article didn't even mention the kid was out of the closet, it just said the kids accussed him of being gay and constantly bullied him.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #95
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something about the reaction to this story has really bothered me.

obviously this is a horrible story, and similar stories have been repeated far too often throughout the nation, and the world as a whole. bullying is a terrible thing, and it has been for a long, long time, in whatever form it may be in... cyber or otherwise.

but there's a large part of this story that is just floating by without being addressed, and that is the issue of our culture's obsession with the invasion of privacy.

feeling the need to hide who you really are, and being driven to suicide when that is revealed to the world is a horrible horrible thing that needs to change, but one could certainly see the same situation being played out where a straight female was unknowingly broadcast to the world engaged in a sexual act that was supposed to be private; or any other number of situations.

to listen to perez hilton get up and preach about how sad he is about this situation makes my stomach curl. this is a man who's entire being is based around embarrassing people, putting pictures and videos and audio of what was once a private thing and blasting it to the world. he, himself, has outted gay celebrities before. does he not understand what he's doing? do you think clay aiken was all peachy about the pictures posted? what about miley cyrus? britney spears? ricky martin? lance bass? erin andrews? what, because these people are celebrities they can not possibly be depressed? suicidal? perez hilton is the #1 cyber bully in the world.

we're all guilty of what these two college kids have done. every one of us. as sad as this story makes you feel... think to yourself if you've ever gone to TMZ, or perezhilton.com, or radaronline, or any of the other rags whose sole purpose is the embarrassment of other human beings.

when the erin andrews story broke, the news outlets could have refused to show screencaps. they didn't. they showed them. and we all watched.

we are a voyeur society. we relish in the embarrassment of others, and then blame everyone else when that person lashes out, or takes their own life.

we are all to blame.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:10 AM   #96
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to listen to perez hilton get up and preach about how sad he is about this situation makes my stomach curl. this is a man who's entire being is based around embarrassing people, putting pictures and videos and audio of what was once a private thing and blasting it to the world. he, himself, has outted gay celebrities before. does he not understand what he's doing? do you think clay aiken was all peachy about the pictures posted? what about miley cyrus? britney spears? ricky martin? lance bass? erin andrews? what, because these people are celebrities they can not possibly be depressed? suicidal? perez hilton is the #1 cyber bully in the world.

we're all guilty of what these two college kids have done. every one of us. as sad as this story makes you feel... think to yourself if you've ever gone to TMZ, or perezhilton.com, or radaronline, or any of the other rags whose sole purpose is the embarrassment of other human beings.

when the erin andrews story broke, the news outlets could have refused to show screencaps. they didn't. they showed them. and we all watched.

we are a voyeur society. we relish in the embarrassment of others, and then blame everyone else when that person lashes out, or takes their own life.

we are all to blame.
I agree and disagree... Perez is a hypocrite. But I believe there is a difference to what a celebrity does out in public and what you are talking about.

I don't know the Erin Andrews story, I know who she is but I don't know of what story you're talking about.

What goes on behind closed doors, in the privacy of your own home, backyard, etc should be completely off limits and I will not condone or get sucked into anything that exploits such voyeurism.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:05 AM   #97
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i'm not talking about someone who goes out and does something stupid in the public spotlight. i'm talking about the constant harassment and stalking and leaking of private images, recordings, voicemails, etc. etc. that this culture thrives on.

in no way do i compare what tiger woods has gone through to what this kid had to deal with... but i will use tiger as an example as to how sick our society is. what did he do that was in the public spotlight? he got into a car crash. in the past that would have been it. but we needed to know why... why was he out that late, what were the circumstances, blah blah blah. then came the voicemails and text messages. all things that are private things, broadcasted across the world for all to see. now tiger is seen as a scumbag, and rightfully so... but what did he do publicly? nothing.

erin andrews is an ESPN sideline reporter who had a stalker take video of her getting undressed in her hotel room and posted it on the internet. it could have ended there... but it didn't. there it was on the evening news... "just a horrible, horrible story... and here's the video!" it's disgusting... but we watched.

lance bass was being outted in the press, and by this hypocritical piece of shit perez hilton, years before he came out publicly. same goes for ricky martin.

this is the society in which we live in... where nothing is private any longer. nobody is safe. public humiliation is a billion dollar industry in western culture. we are horrified when it all goes wrong, but we keep on doing it anyways.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:22 AM   #98
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Reread my post you actually quoted. I said bullying children, bot bullied children.
Ah, okay, gotcha.

In which case... most stuff that goes on in school stays in school.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:34 AM   #99
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What makes you believe that 13 year olds are more likely to take out their depression outwardly rather than inwardly?
It's harder for a younger mind to understand the difference between right and wrong. They're more likely to seek revenge in the search of acceptance. I didnt mean the comment literally, I doubt any of them would draw a gun on anybody either. Just making the point that I dont understand why they killed themselves at such a young age.


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Did you decide you were straight at age 14?

I seriously doubt that each suicide is influencing the next.

Do you really think it matters if the child was gay, straight, out of the closet, or in the closet? The last article didn't even mention the kid was out of the closet, it just said the kids accussed him of being gay and constantly bullied him.
What's your point here? Most people who are gay do not realize they're gay or do not come out about it until later in life. My point is that this kid could've only been publically gay for so long considering you dont really develop feelings for someone else until you have gone through puberty. So the idea that... oh... a single year of middle school was so bad that it drove this kid to suicide... keep in mind that many in the LGBT community go through such torture for years and years... it's kind of unbelieveable.

For a 13 year old to commit suicide, that's an extremely young age. There must've either been something prosecutably wrong, more than just issues about being teased, the suicides are influencing each other, or something.

I never said anything about it mattering what his sexuality was. Do not lecture me, I fully support anybody and there decision of sexuality. In the case of Seth Walsh, it appears as though that kid was openly gay. It also appears as though he's not the first to hang himself.

Suicide is often a cause of many things at once, not just one thing.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:44 AM   #100
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What do you expect them to do? It sounds to me like quite a few of the ones who have commited suicide have had their parents support.

It's society that needs to change. It's really depressing to think that it's come to this.

I would just like to know why two 13 year olds have commited suicide. Honestly, I'd expect someone of that age to draw a gun on someone else before they draw it on themselves. Consideirng they were only 13, dont you think that it either must have been really bad bullying or really overly dramatic handling of the situation or maybe they were influenced by the other suicides?

I mean... how can a 13 year old, who likely just entered puberty, decide they are gay, come out of the closet that fast, and have enough bullying to want to commit suicide? Seems awfully quick...

I'd say each suicide is influencing the next.

I knew at age thirteen. I was heterosexual. Though, I wasn't allowed to date or anything like that.

I tell you exactly what. I expect other parents to do. Raise your children to be respectful of all others. It is never "okay" to call anyone a faggot, queer, lesbo, etc. All human beings have feelings and rights. I as a parent/grand parent have never used "nasty, hateful words." And neither do my grown children. Life lessons begin at home.
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