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Old 12-22-2010, 08:58 PM   #241
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I don't see how a school could be responsible for someone's suicide, but I do agree that the RA's failure to act was an epic fail.

I doubt the family will get anywhere with this lawsuit. How do they know that removing their son from that environment would've made the situation any better. Their son may have committed suicide anyway, as the emotional damage had already been done. Just my theory.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:58 PM   #242
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I don't think they are explicitly blaming the suicide on the school, but the fact that the RA knew the roommate had committed a crime against him and failed to act.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:28 PM   #243
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I don't think they are explicitly blaming the suicide on the school, but the fact that the RA knew the roommate had committed a crime against him and failed to act.
exactly. just theorising here since we'll never really know how everything went down and how he felt, i think the fact that he went to his ra and it was just ignored made it a lot worse, if not the final straw for him.
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:34 PM   #244
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read this whole thread... it makes me feel so, so sick

i don't usually discuss political issues because i get irrationally upset with anyone that disagrees with me. but with stuff like this happening, i don't think it can be ignored. irvine put it perfectly - anyone perpetuating the belief that in one way or another homosexuals are inferior has blood on their hands. i don't necessarily have a problem with the church being against gay marriage within the church (though it seems like a rather silly issue to get upset about - out of all the wrongs going on in the world, is God really that against two people of the same gender who love each other getting married?), but the government institution of marriage is separate from the religious one. i don't get how anyone could be against civil gay marriage. it's a blatant abuse of human rights.

as for the original news story - no, the school is not responsible persay, but both the RA and the asshole roommate should be punished. gay or straight that invasion of privacy is unacceptable.

someone post a picture of puppies or something. this thread made me super depressed.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:12 PM   #245
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someone post a picture of puppies or something. this thread made me super depressed.
I have a puppy! He's a lover and doesn't give a flying fuck about someone's sexual orientation.



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the government institution of marriage is separate from the religious one. i don't get how anyone could be against civil gay marriage. it's a blatant abuse of human rights.
In all seriousness, I agree. To me this is like a common sense, no-brainer, non-issue.....
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:21 PM   #246
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i don't necessarily have a problem with the church being against gay marriage within the church (though it seems like a rather silly issue to get upset about - out of all the wrongs going on in the world, is God really that against two people of the same gender who love each other getting married?)
Yeah, especially given certain other things certain churches are facing scandals about...ahem.

I've said this before, if it was found to be true that God would allow the Fred Phelps, the pedophile priests, of the world to go to heaven, but make gay people go to hell for being gay, then send me to hell as well, 'cause that setup would be all kinds of incredibly massive BS.

But I refuse to believe that that's how things would turn out if God, heaven, and hell were for sure true concepts/places.

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but the government institution of marriage is separate from the religious one. i don't get how anyone could be against civil gay marriage. it's a blatant abuse of human rights.
I wholeheartedly agree. I don't get it, either. I don't get why this, of all issues, bothers some people SO much. I don't get why it's so hard for people to mind their own beeswax and just...shut up and leave people alone.

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Old 12-23-2010, 07:42 PM   #247
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Gay issues have been in the news a lot lately, from the debate over same-sex marriage in Congress to a sickening rash of gay-bashing here in New York City. We see a lot of emotion out there, instead of information, and we wanted to provide some data-based context on sexuality so that people might make better choices about what they say, think, and do.

We run a massive dating site and therefore have unparalleled insight into sex and relationships. Here's what we've found, in numbers and charts.


First of all, gay sexuality is not a threat.

Gay people are not sexually interested in straights.
The subtext to a lot of homophobic thinking is the idea that gays will try to get straight people into bed at the first opportunity, or that gays are looking to "convert" straights. Freud called this concept schwanzangst; the U.S. Army calls it Don't Ask Don't Tell.

We combed through over 4 million match searches, and found virtually no evidence of it:

Match Search Returns
» only 0.6% of gay men have ever searched for straight matches.
» only 0.1% of lesbians have ever searched for straight matches.
» only 0.13% of straight people's profile visitors are gay.
Furthermore
In our dataset, there was not a single gay user, male or female, who primarily searched for straight people.
Gay people aren't promiscuous.
Another common myth about gay people is that they sleep around, but the statistical reality is that gay people as a group aren't any more slutty than straights.

Median Reported Sex Partners

» straight men: 6
» gay men: 6
» straight women: 6
» gay women: 6
Here's how the distribution curves compare:


» 45% of gay people have had 5 or fewer partners (vs. 44% for straights)
» 98% of gay people have had 20 or fewer partners (vs. 99% for straights)
It turns out that a tiny fraction of gays have single-handedly two-handedly created the public image of gay sexual recklessness—in fact we found that just 2% of gay people have had 23% of the total reported gay sex, which is pretty crazy.


Straight people have gay sex, too.
Another inquiry that had unexpected results: we asked 252,900 straight people have you ever had a sexual encounter with someone of the same sex?

Almost a quarter answered 'yes'.



Click the airport-bathroom style icons to toggle the sex(es) displayed. Not unexpectedly, more women than men have had same-sex desires:

straight women's same-sex desires:
» 1 in 3 straight women has hooked up with another woman.
» and of those who haven't, over 1 in 4 would like to.
As for straight men, a surprisingly high 13% have had a same-sex experience, and another 5% haven't yet but would like to.

Using the incredible power of computers, we were able to break down this question geographically. Here are straight people who either have had or would like to have a same-sex experience in the continental U.S. and lower Canada. You can see some sharp geographic divides.


Awesomely, the mountain West lives up to its Brokeback reputation, and Canada is orange nearly coast-to-coast. Even in the yellow and blue areas, you can see pockets of gay curiosity in interesting places: Austin, Madison, Asheville. Anywhere soy milk is served, basically.


Sidenote
Doing the research for this post, I came across many awful things our elected officials have said about gay people; here's a relatively calm example:


For starters, I found that a fun game to play with stuff like this is to replace the words "homosexual" and "gay" with "politician"—then you have something that's actually true.

I also spent a lot of time looking up match questions to debunk this particular claim. Down in the database I discovered one question with a surprising disparity, not between orientations, but between genders. Like Frodo to the Balrog, I wished I'd never unearthed it.
OkTrends
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:11 PM   #248
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I am astonished at how extensive you guys discuss events and news on this board.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:44 PM   #249
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I am astonished at how extensive you guys discuss events and news on this board.
FYM is like heroin. Once you've tasted the brown, you never go back to normality.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:22 PM   #250
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I have a puppy! He's a lover and doesn't give a flying fuck about someone's sexual orientation.

he's precious. i want to scratch behind his ears.

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Very interesting study! especially intrigued by the data about promiscuity. could help overcome the stereotype that gays are promiscuous, which is annoying because 1) theyre no more promiscuous than straight people and 2) regarding males, promiscuous straight males are awarded a pat on the back and a beer with their bros, while the promiscuous gay guys are the ones ruining our country or whatever.

unfortunately statistical analysis like this only goes so far. considering that 1 in 5 Americans believe Obama is a Muslim cactus, at least 20% of the country isnt terribly concerned with "facts"
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:35 PM   #251
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he's precious. i want to scratch behind his ears.
I love dogs. They're such sweet animals.

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Very interesting study! especially intrigued by the data about promiscuity. could help overcome the stereotype that gays are promiscuous, which is annoying because 1) theyre no more promiscuous than straight people and 2) regarding males, promiscuous straight males are awarded a pat on the back and a beer with their bros, while the promiscuous gay guys are the ones ruining our country or whatever.
Yep. Same double standard as the one that exists with women .

Awful lot of areas in the middle of the country that are at least halfway along that "gay curious" scale, if not higher . So much for that "middle America's conservative" stereotype.

I notice I share a lot more of the same potential "sterotypical" tastes as gay people in that "interests" section .

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unfortunately statistical analysis like this only goes so far. considering that 1 in 5 Americans believe Obama is a Muslim cactus, at least 20% of the country isnt terribly concerned with "facts"
To say nothing of that bit about the sun/earth question . Yeah, unfortunately, those who need to hear/read this information either won't, or if they are confronted with it, they'll just brush it off . Ignorance is still bliss to them, I guess.

But it's still good that this information is out there, just to have it confirmed and on the off chance someone reads it and does change their mind about homosexuality.

Angela
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:41 PM   #252
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FYM is like heroin. Once you've tasted the brown, you never go back to normality.
What's even more interesting is that the posters in here hold normal discussion and debate without any kind of flaming or hypocrisy.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:49 PM   #253
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What's even more interesting is that the posters in here hold normal discussion and debate without any kind of flaming or hypocrisy.
Some, but not all. Just to warn you.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:34 PM   #254
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What's even more interesting is that the posters in here hold normal discussion and debate without any kind of flaming or hypocrisy.
Because Interferencers are refined and well-informed.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:07 PM   #255
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The Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office today announced a 15-count indictment has been filed against a student alleged to have secretly viewed images of Tyler Clementi having an intimate encounter with another man just days before Clementi committed suicide. The defendant, Dharun Ravi, 19, of Plainsboro faces two counts each of invasion of privacy and attempted invasion of privacy, offenses that carry penalties of up to five years in prison, Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan said in a statement today. Also, Ravi was indicted on two counts of second-degree bias crimes and two counts of third-degree bias crimes. A grand jury also charged Ravi with three counts each of of tampering with evidence and hindering his own apprehension, and a single count of witness tampering, the prosecutor said.

Grand jurors found Ravi attempted to mislead investigators and witnesses in various ways
, Kaplan said. He said the grand jury determined Ravi deleted a post on Twitter that alerted others to view Clementi and another man during their second encounter in a university dorm room on Sept. 21, 2010. Ravi also tried to convince witnesses not to testify against him and provided investigators with misleading information, Kaplan said.
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Jane and Joe Clementi, Tyler's parents, today put out a statement through their attorney, Brown & Connery, LLP. "The grand jury indictment spells out cold and calculated acts against our son Tyler by his former college roommate," the Clementis said. "We are eager to have the process move forward for justice in this case and to reinforce the standards of acceptable conduct in our society."

Another student, Molly Wei, 19, of West Windsor, was also charged with invasion of privacy, but but her case was not presented to the grand jury "at this time," Kaplan said. He said the charges against Wei are pending and the case remains active, but he did not say why it was not yet presented to the grand jury.
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State Attorney General Paula Dow hailed the indictment today as step to stem bigotry. "This indictment is an important step in this heartbreaking case. New Jersey's bias law recognizes the terrible harm caused by acts of bigotry and hatred and imposes harsher punishment on those who commit such crimes," Dow said in a statement.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:03 PM   #256
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Under a new state law in New Jersey, lunch-line bullies in the East Hanover schools can be reported to the police by their classmates this fall through anonymous tips to the Crimestoppers hot line. In Elizabeth, children, including kindergartners, will spend six class periods learning, among other things, the difference between telling and tattling. And at North Hunterdon High School, students will be told that there is no such thing as an innocent bystander when it comes to bullying: if they see it, they have a responsibility to try to stop it.

But while many parents and educators welcome the efforts to curb bullying both on campus and online, some superintendents and school board members across New Jersey say the new law, which takes effect Sept. 1, reaches much too far, and complain that they have been given no additional resources to meet its mandates. The law, known as the Anti-Bullying Bill of Rights, is considered the toughest legislation against bullying in the nation. Propelled by public outcry over the suicide of a Rutgers University freshman, Tyler Clementi, nearly a year ago, it demands that all public schools adopt comprehensive antibullying policies (there are 18 pages of “required components”), increase staff training and adhere to tight deadlines for reporting episodes. Each school must designate an antibullying specialist to investigate complaints; each district must, in turn, have an antibullying coordinator; and the State Education Department will evaluate every effort, posting grades on its Web site. Superintendents said that educators who failed to comply could lose their licenses.

“I think this has gone well overboard,” Richard G. Bozza, executive director of the New Jersey Association of School Administrators, said. “Now we have to police the community 24 hours a day. Where are the people and the resources to do this?”
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In most cases, schools are tapping guidance counselors and social workers as the new antibullying specialists, raising questions of whether they have the time or experience to look into every complaint of harassment or intimidation and write the detailed reports required. Some administrators are also worried that making schools legally responsible for bullying on a wider scale will lead to more complaints and open the door to lawsuits from students and parents dissatisfied with the outcome. But supporters of the law say that schools need to do more as conflicts spread from cafeterias and corridors to social media sites, magnifying the effects and making them much harder to shut down.

...“It’s not the traditional bullying: the big kid in the schoolyard saying, ‘You’re going to do what I say,’ ” Richard Bergacs, an assistant principal at North Hunterdon High, said. Dr. Bergacs, who investigates half a dozen complaints of bullying each month, said most involved both comments on the Internet and face-to-face confrontations on campus. “It’s gossip, innuendo, rumors—and people getting mad about it,” he said.

...The law also requires districts to appoint a safety team at each school, made up of teachers, staff members and parents, to review complaints. It orders principals to begin an investigation within one school day of a bullying episode, and superintendents to provide reports to Trenton twice a year detailing all episodes.

...In the East Hanover district, the new partnership with Crimestoppers, a program of the Morris County sheriff’s office, is intended to make reporting easier, but it also ups the ante by involving law enforcement rather than resolving issues in the principal’s office. Crimestoppers will accept anonymous text messages, calls or tips to its Web site, then forward the information to school and local police officials.

...In Elizabeth, antibullying efforts will start in the classroom, with a series of posters and programs, including role-playing exercises. In one lesson, students will study pictures of children’s faces and talk about the emotions expressed (annoyance, disappointment), while in another, they will practice saying phrases like “I am angry.” “The whole push is to incorporate the antibullying process into the culture,” Lucila Hernandez, a school psychologist, said. “We’re empowering children to use the term ‘bullying’ and to speak up for themselves and for others.”

...But [Westfield Superintendent Margaret] Dolan cautioned that an unintended consequence of the new law could be that students, or their parents, will find it easier to label minor squabbles bullying than to find ways to work out their differences. “Kids have to learn to deal with conflict,” she said. “What a shame if they don’t know how to effectively interact with their peers when they have a disagreement.”
I have some mixed feelings about the sweeping scope of this law, particularly given the nature of the incident which occasioned it--is anti-gay bullying, happening as it does against the backdrop of a society in which homosexuality remains widely and often openly stigmatized at all levels, really comparable to "gossip, innuendo, rumors—and people getting mad about it"? Is a Crimestoppers hotline how you'd want your kid to respond to bullying s/he feels s/he saw or experienced at school? Is there a risk of cultivating something more like entitlement in certain children, when you meant to cultivate empowerment?
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:37 PM   #257
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I hope this sets a precedent. People really need to know they can't do things like that and get away with it. It is the first ever conviction for a hate crime based on invasion of privacy.

(Reuters) - A former Rutgers University student who used a computer webcam to spy on a sexual tryst of his roommate, who later committed suicide, was found guilty of hate crimes on Friday in a case that put a national spotlight on gay bullying.

Dharun Ravi, 20, faces 10 years in prison on the most serious charge of bias intimidation against Tyler Clementi, 18, who committed suicide by jumping off the George Washington Bridge three days after learning his gay encounter was seen by webcam.

Ravi, who invited others to watch the feed from the camera mounted on top of his computer, was not charged with causing Clementi's death.

Ravi, an Indian citizen who has lived most of his life in the United States, will be sentenced on May 21 and remains free on $25,000 bail after surrendering his passport. He faces possible deportation.

Some legal experts said the case elevated the abuse of social media from a common prank, as Ravi's lawyer argued, to criminal behavior.

"It's very important that the jury returned a guilty verdict on the bias crime. It sends a message and it has a deterrent effect on what kids do. It's really important to say, we're not tolerating this," said Susan Abraham, a professor at New York Law School.

Others called the verdict overreaching.

"It illustrates the dysfunction of hate crime laws that were passed with the idea that they would strike out against hate groups and neo-Nazi groups, and instead end up being used in these one-off kind of cases, where immature confused young people act in some way that evidences prejudice," said James Jacobs, a professor at New York University School of Law. Ravi was convicted for using the webcam to watch Clementi's dorm room encounter with a 30-year-old man, identified only as M.B., on September 19, 2010, and attempting to do the same when M.B. returned to the room on September 21, 2010, although he was thwarted when Clementi unplugged the computer.

He was found guilty of encouraging others to watch by accessing the webcam from their own computers, by talking to them in person, sending Internet instant messages and posting notes on his Twitter page including "Roommate asked for room till midnight. Went into Molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

GUILTY OF HATE CRIME

After 12 hours of deliberations over three days, the jury convicted Ravi on all 15 counts, including two counts of bias intimidation based on sexual orientation, which is a hate crime, invasion of privacy and tampering with evidence and witnesses.

Ravi covered his mouth with his hand and his eyes widened as the verdict was read in a courtroom in Middlesex County, New Jersey.

Juror Bruno Ferreira said it was "very difficult" to reach the guilty verdicts on the hate crime counts, which were tied to Ravi's efforts to twice use the webcam to spy on Clementi's with M.B.

"Thinking about it not being done once, being done twice, not just on one day," was what convinced the seven-woman, five-man panel, Ferreira said.

Prosecutor Julia McClure said she will consult the Clementi family and M.B. to determine what sentence she will ask Judge Glenn Berman to impose.

Victim statements are among the most important factors the judge will consider, legal experts say. "I wouldn't be surprised if the judge gave him a sentence of a year in jail, or six months or something like that. Now the symbolic point is made," Jacobs said.

Clementi's family in March 2011, before a grand jury indictment elevated the incident to a hate crime, released a statement saying Ravi should not receive "harsh punishment."

After the verdict, Tyler's father Joe Clementi, at a news conference with his wife and son James, who is gay, said, "The trial was painful for us, as it would be for any parent who must sit through and listen to people talk about bad things that were done to their child."

Clementi's death came amid a spate of gay teen suicides nationwide, triggering President Barack Obama to condemn bullying, speeding passage of New Jersey's anti-bullying law and prompting Rutgers to offer "gender-neutral housing," which gives students more options when it comes to choosing a roommate.

Going to trial was a gamble for Ravi, who turned down the prosecutor's offer of a plea deal recommending probation, community service and the promise to help him avoid deportation.

A deportation decision will be made by a U.S. immigration judge after Ravi completes his criminal sentence.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #258
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:06 PM   #259
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I hope wherever Tyler Clementi is now, he feels a sense of justice.
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:01 AM   #260
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I remember how much this bothered me when it first happened. I am glad that justice has been served. Even if the sentence does end up being a shorter one, the connviction brings to light just how serious this type of thing is.
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