Climategate Lies

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Paying people to do nothing
:lol:


Also forcing enormous money on unproven technologies carries the risk that everyone will invest in them and when the bubble bursts (some of these technologies suck) we'll have more people who don't have savings for retirement.

You look silly going on and on about "unproven technologies", especially when you post sources that prove you otherwise.

Do you really want to stop looking for these technologies? You like stagnation?
 
Anyone whose actions completely mirror that of a celebrity they follow day in and day out is an idiot. If you give up on a cause because some of the celebrities involved give up or don't walk the walk, then that's your problem. There's still plenty of people with not a lot of money on them that do whatever they can to support a cause or an issue, and they don't care if they get celebrity endorsements or not. They may not be vocal about it most of the time, lest it come off as preachy or whatever, but they still get involved. The issue itself is still important, it just happened to have some dumb people attached to it because they like the notoriety and attention and like looking as though they care. It's an unfortunate side effect sometimes, sadly.

Angela

The idiots are those that don't have the money to pay for the increased energy prices from these useless regulations (that failed in Europe) and haven't done the due diligence to come to their conclusions. DiCaprio is in a good position precisely because he can buy trees to offset his carbon footprint (whether it can be measured properly or not) and he can buy solar panels and not care if the energy savings pay for the panels. Government workers with Defined Benefit pensions are also in the similar position in that they have a guaranteed annuity that private sector workers can rarely get. Full cap and trade would shrink the middle class and make a more pyramidal society. This is because increased fees and taxes leave middle class folks (and poor ones) with less money left over after they pay for necessities so their standard of living decreases and they will have less money to save for retirement. Rich people that support cap and trade don't care because they have lots of money left over for a high standard of living.
 

Yeah that's Al Gore laughing all the way to the bank. Subprime science and subprime loans aren't funny.

:You look silly going on and on about "unproven technologies", especially when you post sources that prove you otherwise.

Do you really want to stop looking for these technologies? You like stagnation?

Cap and trade will create more stagnation. Investing in research is much cheaper than cap and trade.

You keep going on about my sources. None of them said Solar power can work everywhere. Since they can't work everywhere there is no replacement for fossil fuels so you might as well live in a shack with no heat if you feel impending doom is coming because of CO2 since it's here to stay until a real alternative is found.

At this point solar power is a joke.

Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation - BusinessWeek

Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation
April 12 (Bloomberg) -- A Spanish trade group called on authorities to investigate possible fraud among solar-power generators after a news report said that some were getting paid for producing power at night.

ASIF wants the “identification, charges and rigorous application of the law” applied to any power producer guilty of such practices, the Madrid-based association for Spain’s photovoltaic-panel industry said today in a statement.

An audit of solar-power generation from November 2009 to January 2010 found that some panel operators were paid for doing the “impossible” -- producing electricity from sunlight during the night, El Mundo reported today, citing a letter from Secretary of State for Energy Pedro Marin.

Officials at Marin’s office in Madrid weren’t immediately available for comment.

“ASIF regrets that, with relative frequency, supposed photovoltaic fraud is leaked to the press -- with harmful consequences for the public image of the sector -- which later don’t translate into any public case that identifies the guilty,” the group said.

Preliminary evidence shows some solar stations may have run diesel-burning generators and sold the output as solar power, which earns several times more than electricity from fossil fuels, El Mundo said, citing unidentified people from the energy industry. The power grid received 4,500 megawatt-hours of power from midnight to 7 a.m. in the months audited, El Mundo said.:lmao:

--Editors: Stephen Cunningham, Mike Anderson.

Even nuclear power can't eliminate all fossil fuels though it would be interesting if we could more more nuclear power plants and have electric cars plugged in. Again the costs would have to be weighed to see if it's feasible.
 
You keep going on about my sources. None of them said Solar power can work everywhere. Since they can't work everywhere there is no replacement for fossil fuels so you might as well live in a shack with no heat if you feel impending doom is coming because of CO2 since it's here to stay until a real alternative is found.

This is limited and outdated thinking. Certain plants and wildlife are sustainable only in certain areas of the earth, why can't we allow ourselves to think more like nauture and allow for sustainability based on region?

Think outside the box, it's the only way we'll move forward.

At this point solar power is a joke.

So the fact that huge regions of the world can power itself with solar like the source you yourself posted, makes it a joke?
 
This is limited and outdated thinking. Certain plants and wildlife are sustainable only in certain areas of the earth, why can't we allow ourselves to think more like nauture and allow for sustainability based on region?

So the fact that huge regions of the world can power itself with solar like the source you yourself posted, makes it a joke?

I didn't say BAN solar power. The argument of the AGW types is that we need to faze out fossil fuels due to the emergency of a fried planet. Solar power is not reliable enough. I'm sure we could power the world with solar power the only problem is that our standard of living would be that of Africa if we did it. Hence there are many that want Africa to develop their own fossil fuel resources more because cheap energy is required to reduce poverty. If some regions want to use solar they better not sell snake oil and use diesel at night to try and pretend they can do more than they can and the governments that subsidize it better manage their budgets properly so they can actually afford it if making money is not their interest.
 
Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?

This is why this issue is so difficult to discuss with you, as soon as it gets a little over your head you turn to conspiracy theories.
 
Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?

This is why this issue is so difficult to discuss with you, as soon as it gets a little over your head you turn to conspiracy theories.

It doesn't help when your president is on camera talking about shutting down coal companies and people are conducting solar power fraud. Liberals need to expand their compassion to include taxpayers and the unemployed. Climate Alarmism certainly qualifies for "Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?"
 
Where are these shut down coal companies?

There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.
 
I'm just some guy. I'm young, I'm a college student. I don't make money or lose money right now based on how oil does or how Greenpeace does or how new green jobs are created or not. I have no direct connection to anything on this issue.

I'm just a guy who thinks there are very valid concerns about what we're doing to our environment that are being dismissed because the politics has caused portions of environmentalists to go over-the-top. I have not a connection in the world that gives me a reason to be on this side other than my concerns through reading up on the issue. To suggest otherwise is laughable.


Excellent post.

There are concerns. That it is going to be 300 degrees and we pass cap and trade or go poof just isn't one of them.

You have the right idea. Thanks for the post .
 
Where are these shut down coal companies?

There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.

working pretty good too isn't it. Joe Biden I think said Spain has created 43 million jobs from their efforts. ... or was it lost 2 for everyone created.. one of the 2. maybe it was that it cost 43million per job. something in that equation.
 
Where are these shut down coal companies?

I posted a video of Obama talking about shutting down coal companies already, to then make way for green energy. He also wanted to give a tax credit for the lost jobs which would hardly replace a lost job. He was only this aggressive because it was a world emergency. Things have changed since Climategate. Cap and trade hasn't passed the senate so hopefully he won't get what he wants. :crosses fingers:

YouTube - Video: Plan Will Bankrupt Coal Industry

Thanks to so called "ultra rightwingers" it's been met with opposition including Democrats.

There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.

Charging high solar power rates and using diesel is a fraudulent way to make a profit. If they use diesel they should charge lower diesel rates. Thank god for audits.:D
 
That's not exactly "shutting down coal companies".

We've seen where no regulations gets us.

You know what I mean when I talk about regulations. If you regulate a business to bankruptcy it's very different than asking for reasonable regulations on oil companies to improve safety. It's a matter of degree not 0 regulations or regulations everywhere.
 
Here's another dose of reality

Prices rise as New Zealand passes emissions trading scheme - Telegraph

Prices rise as New Zealand passes emissions trading scheme

Petrol and power prices have risen sharply in New Zealand after the government introduced a controversial emissions trading scheme.

The government has pressed ahead with plans to slash the nation's carbon output, despite widespread opposition and New Zealand's larger neighbour Australia shelving its own scheme.

Motorists were hit by a 3c (1.4p) rise in the price of a litre of petrol overnight, while householders face a 5 per cent increase in gas and electricity prices.

It was the first step in a complex scheme, universally referred to as "the ETS", to slash carbon emissions back to 1990 levels.

Some disgruntled consumers marked the launch by wearing T-shirts with the meaning of the letters changed to read "Extra Tax Sucks".

Businesses facing cost increases have warned they will be forced to raise prices of everyday items, such as the bread on supermarket shelves.

Under the scheme, to be fully phased in over several years, companies trade carbon credits known as New Zealand Units (NZUs).

Industries that are net creators of carbon must buy the units from the government or from sellers whose businesses absorb carbon, such as those that plant trees.

The units can be traded internationally with other countries implementing a similar scheme under the Kyoto Protocol.

Nick Smith, the Climate Change Minister, who has championed the scheme, says it is the first to be introduced outside Europe.

That claim has opponents asking why New Zealand is not waiting for bigger countries such as Australia and the United States to move first.

Dr Smith said New Zealand had to act because its greenhouse gas emissions have increased by 25 per cent over the past 20 years.

"It's actually about New Zealand starting the path, starting the change to a less carbon intensive economy.

"The hard truth around climate change is there is no free lunch." he said.

"If you want to make change, if you want to reduce emissions, then there is going to be a cost."

Critics argue that the gesture is largely symbolic because New Zealand, with a population of only four million and very little heavy industry, contributes only 0.2 per cent of total global emissions.

Looks like Australia dodged a bullet.
 
Yeah but there are professionals who get paid to comment on it and I already wasted hours on many of these believers and they are going to believe what they want and alarmism is their tool. It's like trying to debate with a megaphone with an agenda. The paid commentators and funded scientists are already doing this debate and making most of the headway.

But by all means if you find it fun to prove them wrong we already have a thread right here you can peruse on top of what we have already learned recently about many faults of the IPCC reports.

http://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/bbc-what-happened-to-global-warming-202339.html

Have fun. :D


cool thanks
 
so...do you agree or disagree with them charging more for this? i'm honestly curious, i can see both sides with this one.

so that money, is supposed to go to some poor nation like sommalia, to help the warlords give them a better life.

you think once the money goes , any part of th people will ever see it?

No, but you can bet the Gov, or FOG will be very happy to take it.

It is a scam. New Zealand doesn't have any reason to pay this. They produce a zillionth of any co2
 
Individual nations may not create a lot of emissions by quantity but taken all up it's enough to make a difference. It's a tragedy of the commons situation.
 
Maybe Al Gore being a sex crazed poodle has something to do with Climategate :hmm: I never heard that before, sex crazed poodle..

"Get off of me you lummox"
 
so...do you agree or disagree with them charging more for this? i'm honestly curious, i can see both sides with this one.

We're in a worldwide recession. We are not going to get out of it if we charge more or anything at all. As stated in the article New Zealand is doing this but other countries are not so CO2 reduction isn't being achieved (they don't have much of an energy industry) and the science hasn't proved that it will cook our planet in fact the more recent science says it only marginally affects it (meaning more CO2 particles hold less heat than the CO2 particles that were already there helping to create the greenhouse effect). Natural cycles of water vapour have more impact. There are also other scientists that actually like CO2 and want more of it because they can see plant life benefiting from it.
 
There are also other scientists that actually like CO2 and want more of it because they can see plant life benefiting from it.

And we call them quacks.

Seriously, no scientist worth their salt believes this. That guy who did the experiment in his backyard using aquariums doesn't count. Anyone who's tested this on larger scales have realized this. Learn what is true science and what is junk, do not let your political affiliation steer you.
 
We're in a worldwide recession. We are not going to get out of it if we charge more or anything at all. As stated in the article New Zealand is doing this but other countries are not so CO2 reduction isn't being achieved (they don't have much of an energy industry) and the science hasn't proved that it will cook our planet in fact the more recent science says it only marginally affects it (meaning more CO2 particles hold less heat than the CO2 particles that were already there helping to create the greenhouse effect). Natural cycles of water vapour have more impact. There are also other scientists that actually like CO2 and want more of it because they can see plant life benefiting from it.
new zealand was also the only country that allowed women to vote at first. someone always has to be the first to do something. there's public transport to be had, and then you won't be paying more for gas. i can understand why people are up in arms about this, but the world as a whole needs to stop relying on oil so much, especially foreign oil.
 
Individual nations may not create a lot of emissions by quantity but taken all up it's enough to make a difference. It's a tragedy of the commons situation.

so no 200 truck rock tours would save the planet? cranes. Bad diesl fumes. No jets? every little bit helps right?

Last I saw, New Zealand it was a pretty "green" country. Lots of trees.
 
And we call them quacks.

Seriously, no scientist worth their salt believes this. That guy who did the experiment in his backyard using aquariums doesn't count. Anyone who's tested this on larger scales have realized this. Learn what is true science and what is junk, do not let your political affiliation steer you.

The reason why there is a divergence in the tree ring samples in recent times is because of increased CO2 emissions in modern times. The trees are getting bigger and plants greener. You calling them quacks and talking about the "true" science simply means that you will ignore political affiliation with the U.N. because appeal to authority works on you better than it does on me. It's not about a resume. It's about claims that are so backed up with evidence that it becomes convincing. And even then science doesn't stop. CO2 is not the main driver of climate change and those who made that claim FAILED. It's up to the people making the claims to prove themselves not the rest of the public to hand over sovreignty to scientists (who financially benefit) and politicians (who financially benefit) and green companies that can't compete (who financially benefit). Furthermore no cap and trade in other countries is stringent enough to actually reduce CO2 to any agreed amount precisely because of the economic consequences so the goal is actually fake and scientists know we can't meet those goals so who is being fooled?

The U.S. is in a huge debt hole and to even contemplate energy taxes (which always are passed onto the consumer) is either on purpose because socialists already have a track record to use crisis to increase the size of government, or the politicians are completely deluded about economics. The U.S. needs to elect politicians that will actually increase economic growth. People who don't care about economic growth either are going to benefit from these policies or are unknowningly hurting themselves.

BTW BVS the reason why there is a political backlash against AGW is precisely because AGW has political and economic consequences. Why should I ignore politics and economics? Who's bringing up the subject first? Isn't worldwide cap and trade related to politics and economics? Shouldn't we get the science right before we hand over sovreignty to a world government (like was attempted at Copenhagen)? Shouldn't we look at how Africans will be impacted if they can only use unreliable green energy to develop their economies? The reason why Bono shifted towards this topic is precisely because Al Gore promised that some cap and trade money would go to allieviating poverty. This is because everyone knows that energy taxes and economic growth are at odds with each other. This confirms what conservatives say all along about the left is that they want people to be on handouts and not develop in perpetuity. The contradictions will have to be dealt with before cap and trade can be taken seriously.
 
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