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Old 10-05-2009, 01:27 PM   #41
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The question is, who will lead us out.


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Old 10-05-2009, 01:29 PM   #42
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The question is, who will lead us out.
Have you lost faith?

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Old 10-05-2009, 02:20 PM   #43
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:53 PM   #44
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At a certain price they would be everywhere, but if that price is achieved by not drilling for oil, building nuclear or coal power plants or implementing dopey Cap & Trade scheemes, I don't think that makes much economical sense and is in reality a de facto subsidy.

Well they have to because renewable energy is both inefficient and highly unreliable making it unsuitable for baseload-grid use thus requiring a conventional energy source backup at all times.
Well, I guess we have fundamental differences in our economical philosophy there. While for you pretty much any government meddling with the markets is an unjustified intervention, I don't always oppose the state using its powers in order to allocate resources and steering the economy towards a sustainable use of those resources, or to influence their demand by driving up or down the respective prices.
Also, Germany has almost no oil resources and the few we have wouldn't satisfy demand at all if left with those alone. Same with coal. So if we didn't promote the use of the resources we have, wind, water, biogas and a little sun, we would be perfectly independent of those countries in possession of such. Same with uranium.
For me there are a few other factors as well. If I didn't care about future generations, I would say, "Screw that green energy and use up the oil". If I didn't believe in climate change I would say, "Screw those windmills and let's take our chances with that damn global warming." Which for me, by the way, is no question of believing, and I don't really want to sit here in 40 years and say "Boo! You were wrong!" or "Yes, you were right."
If I didn't care that those resources were limited I wouldn't care for renewables either.
From an economical standpoint, of course nothing ever makes sense that prevents one from maximising his profit at the cost of future. But only if you follow the economic philosophy that there is no tomorrow. Or that climate change doesn't matter as long as we don't have waterproof evidence that it exists. I think, if we left resource allocation to the markets alone, we would just go through all those resources in the shortest amount of time, and our grandchildren would be very thankful for that.

Efficiency of renewables is increasing. And that's not a great argument. Every new technology lacks in efficiency. And some old technologies as well. A coal-power plant still has an efficiency level of about 35 percent. Nuclear power plants not much better. A conventional light-bulb emits about 95 to 98 percent heat.
We know that those forms of power generation are not always available. But we also aim for just 20 percent by 2020. Not 100 percent. And some other forms are, like water power or biogas. And we are still at the beginning of having figured out how to store energy.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:32 PM   #45
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You certainly make some good points V V in regards to natural resources. That certainly would affect energy policies and would vary from country to country. And new technologies will become more efficient with time.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:39 PM   #46
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and what new technologies need are creative people, and creative people are drawn to tolerant, liberal, arts-oriented cities like San Francisco, New York, LA, Boston, Seattle, etc.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:42 PM   #47
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I think it's a point for the US, too. If the States weren't importing such vast amounts of oil from the middle east, their own resources would be exploited in just a very few years.
And this efficiency debate always comes up with new technologies. Or that they are not as good, yet. E.g. electric cars. Well, true that. But if industry didn't start on a small level and grew from there, progress would never be made. And you can't expect a new technology to be at the same level as that which has been around for decades. No reason to never promote it, in my eyes.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:06 PM   #48
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why is it that many more blue states are in the crapper compared to red states?

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Old 10-05-2009, 05:08 PM   #49
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The red states already had it so bad they couldn't fall much anymore.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:11 PM   #50
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why is it that many more blue states are in the crapper compared to red states?

<>
If you think it's as simple as that, you may think about going back to school.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:17 PM   #51
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And looking into the crystal ball, two-thirds of California's kindergarten students are Hispanic, most unable to speak English with illiterate, poorly educated and unskilled parents.
As usual, I'm going to ask for a citation here. I know I won't get one, but I'll ask anyway.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:25 PM   #52
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If you think it's as simple as that, you may think about going back to school.
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blue state crapper.


red state crapper.
<>
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:31 PM   #53
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If you think it's as simple as that, you may think about going back to school.
if you think it's that complicated, you need to stay in school.

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Old 10-05-2009, 05:32 PM   #54
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the economic conservatives in Orange County and the housing bubble. and their demand to slash taxes.

as ever, it's the conservatives. they're busy screaming about Roman Polanski while the hills north of Hollywood burn.
As ever


So more taxes on job creators, more illegal immigration, more social diversity, and more subsidies for green jobs is the way out?
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:34 PM   #55
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As ever


So more taxes on job creators, more illegal immigration, more social diversity, and more subsidies for green jobs is the way out?
Yes! don't you see Bluer White!

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Old 10-05-2009, 05:45 PM   #56
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and the housing bubble.
Oh, and one of my all-time favorite Youtube videos.

There's shared blame for the housing crisis...but California's own Maxine Waters says it all at 0:40.

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Old 10-05-2009, 06:25 PM   #57
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Mr Frank Raines..
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:27 PM   #58
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if you think it's that complicated, you need to stay in school.

<>
So the way you vote determines your state's economy? It has absolutely nothing to do with what resources, what kind of industries drive that state's economy, or anything like that, it all depends on if you like Romney, McCain, Obama or Clinton right? What a joke.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:57 PM   #59
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:


blue state crapper.


red state crapper.
<>



sorry, sweet pea, but the 2nd one was clearly designed by homosexuals, and they don't live in red states.

you did your best.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:59 PM   #60
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So more taxes on job creators, more illegal immigration, more social diversity, and more subsidies for green jobs is the way out?

cutting taxes certainly hasn't gotten anyone anywhere.
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