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Old 10-05-2009, 01:24 AM   #21
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they certainly hear spanish.
I know, and everyone knows Jesus spoke English.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:36 AM   #22
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This is a rather Captain Obvious point, but considering that CA had by far the worst housing bubble in the US, it's unsurprising that they fell particularly hard when the crisis hit.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:47 AM   #23
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I purposely didn't mention I believe one of California's saving graces will actually probably be immigration. Asian immigration or skilled and educated Mexican workers.

Better to watch y'all have your usual meltdown knee-jerk reaction whenever someone dares point out a few uncomfortable facts that don't quite jive with the multiculturalism orthodoxy of the Left.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:27 AM   #24
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Not only is much of Europe lowering taxes while we talk of raising them, but they for the most part have also abandoned the fantasy of green energy in favor of nuclear power.
Tax decreases and tax reforms are something considered in most European states. However, you cannot compare European tax systems with that of California, or better, what they pay for. And they are coming at a high cost most citizens don't even agree with.
And it's, as usual, a bit too black and white to say we are abandoning green power. There is a great debate of letting nuclear power plants run longer and some states are even planning on building new ones, like France or England. But at the same time, we are not abandoning green energy. The goal of 20% being produced by those sources still stands, and is set to increase. We can actually do both, consider nuclear power and green energy. It's called energy mix.
But our great politicians have yet to figure out where to safely deposit the nuclear waste. No country has a solution for that, yet they are all eager to produce even more of that.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:44 AM   #25
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Australia will be the dumping ground for your nukular waste guys. See we have a dream too, only ours glows in the dark.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:12 AM   #26
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Right, after all Australia is where most of our uranium is coming from. And we love to give back.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:13 AM   #27
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Better to watch y'all have your usual meltdown knee-jerk reaction whenever someone dares point out a few uncomfortable facts that don't quite jive with the multiculturalism orthodoxy of the Left.
But you seemed to be the only one "uncomfortable" with them, but nice try.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:04 AM   #28
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Sounds like the crystal ball of a white male in fear...

Oh no many of these brownies will learn English and become successful, what kind of world will my child grow up in if he's now the minority? Why pick on the innocent? Just sad.
is that the best you can do with what he said?

it is extremely narrow-minded to think that what he said is outrightly dismissable. though, to your credit/defence, his POV was poorly put. the essence of his pov, however, is very important if his numbers are even 5 miles from the ballpark.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:06 AM   #29
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california has the most creative and innovative minds in the country, mostly due to the high levels of racial/ethnic diversity and social tolerance (and spectacular weather doesn't hurt). being left wing on the left coast is what made it great to begin with. look for it to rebound, as Ali says, through green energy.
if all these things make it so great, and indeed i'd certainly agree on most of them, then why is it in so much trouble?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:09 AM   #30
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^That's what this long, extensive article failed to elaborate on. It mentioned some factors in passing, but didn't really try to explain.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #31
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agreed. i'm curious to know what the core issues are, instead of conservative v liberal mudslinging.

wow, that made me sound like a politician, didn't it?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:57 AM   #32
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This is a rather Captain Obvious point, but considering that CA had by far the worst housing bubble in the US, it's unsurprising that they fell particularly hard when the crisis hit.


there's that unfettered, unregulated, yee-haw cowboy capitalism for you.

the road to ruin, every time.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:59 AM   #33
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if all these things make it so great, and indeed i'd certainly agree on most of them, then why is it in so much trouble?


the economic conservatives in Orange County and the housing bubble. and their demand to slash taxes.

as ever, it's the conservatives. they're busy screaming about Roman Polanski while the hills north of Hollywood burn.



sorry, i guess this isn't what you were looking for. i'll let a californian answer.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:08 PM   #34
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we are not abandoning green energy. The goal of 20% being produced by those sources still stands, and is set to increase. We can actually do both, consider nuclear power and green energy. It's called energy mix.
But at what cost? Haven't your electricity rates skyrocketed under your "feed-in tariff" that guarantees green energy producers a price 7 times higher than that traditional energy producers get on the market? Am I close?
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:27 PM   #35
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is that the best you can do with what he said?

it is extremely narrow-minded to think that what he said is outrightly dismissable. though, to your credit/defence, his POV was poorly put. the essence of his pov, however, is very important if his numbers are even 5 miles from the ballpark.
His numbers aren't even close, so how else is one to take them except for pure xenophobia? He's the one that called it an "uncomfortable fact". Why would the ethnic make up of his child's kindergarten class be of such concern? I live in a city that's majority hispanic and we're thriving, so what is his concern? You tell me.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:29 PM   #36
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But at what cost? Haven't your electricity rates skyrocketed under your "feed-in tariff" that guarantees green energy producers a price 7 times higher than that traditional energy producers get on the market? Am I close?
Where did you get these numbers?
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #37
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Our energy prices have gotten a lot higher, but that wasn't caused by green energy alternatives. Our main problem is that we are such an intelligent bunch that we let Russia became virtually the monopoly supplier of gas. And the gas price is tied to the oil price. Their reasoning is, since gas comes from the same source as oil their prices should be the same as well.
Add to that, that the liberalisation of markets still left us with an oligopoly. Even though they are regulated, they are very quick at raising prices, but very slow at lowering. And regulation is too weak to really force them to go down with prices in real-time.
Also, renewable energies would be competitive even without these forms of subsidies. Except for solar power here in Germany. That is only feasible in some parts of the country. Big producers are already jumping on to the train of green energies, and the markets are succeeding. But of course they also like to stick to nuclear and coal power. It should be considered that every coal worker in Germany is subsidised 1.5 times of the revenue he generates. We continue to destroy huge parts of our country until 2018 for a very expensive energy source, even though the majority is already imported from the US and Australia.

As long as the prices don't spiral out of control and even low-income groups can afford them I don't even see a problem in higher energy prices. It reduces wasting energy more than any campaign could achieve.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:42 PM   #38
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I know here in TX our energy prices have gone up slighty where I live except where they are going more green, go figure.

And in West TX where wind is really picking up energy prices are dropping.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:08 PM   #39
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Also, renewable energies would be competitive even without these forms of subsidies.
At a certain price they would be everywhere, but if that price is achieved by not drilling for oil, building nuclear or coal power plants or implementing dopey Cap & Trade scheemes, I don't think that makes much economical sense and is in reality a de facto subsidy.
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Big producers are already jumping on to the train of green energies, and the markets are succeeding. But of course they also like to stick to nuclear and coal power.
Well they have to because renewable energy is both inefficient and highly unreliable making it unsuitable for baseload-grid use thus requiring a conventional energy source backup at all times.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:20 PM   #40
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CA troubles include a certain number of CA-specific issues, including: a divided state legislature, complete with a state constitution that makes ratifying any budget almost impossible; short term plans for state revenue (boosts in sales taxes, bond buying and selling, etc) at the expense of long term strategy; and immigration issues that affect everything from payroll taxes to health care. While the film industry is just one among many industries that have taken root in CA, the affect of runaway production on the local economy is also significant, as it affects employment, tax revenue, etc.

At the same time, CA is also being hit hard by the same economic issues ravaging the country (three other states in the country are also faced with massive unemployment). With the eighth largest economy in the world, it's no surprise that CA is going to be hit inordinately hard by the recession. The question is, who will lead us out.
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