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Old 05-08-2012, 06:14 PM   #321
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As to my main point, anyone?
Well, yeah. When it comes to civil rights, the whole "Take it slow, baby steps" argument is much more frustrating than your run-of-the-mill political issue. The reason? Because this isn't an issue where there are legitimate arguments on both sides. That's how all civil rights issues are and have been in the past.

Until you present actual "ramifications" that you keep vaguely alluding to, I have no idea what you're trying to get across. It's pretty amazing, considering we've been having this argument for several years on this forum: I have no idea why you are against same-sex marriage. I've read most of your posts on the topic and still haven't had a takeaway from them.

This is not meant as a criticism, either. I really would like to have you get more into the detail as to what you mean with these "ramifications." I hope we're on the cusp of a better discussion on the issue, as opposed to just another toe dipped in the pool. Otherwise, I'll just have to believe you simply fear change, because that's what it seems like when you simply say "ramifications." To me, it sounds like it's just a fear of the unknown. Yeah, nothing bad has happened in Massachusetts yet, but on a national level what if (BLANK) happens? I don't even know what the blank could be.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #322
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What Southerners did in the Civil War to justify their view of slavery is exactly, exactly, what Dan Savage does when he misapplies his biblical references to slavery.
I understand the argument--though it's just an argument, not an indisputable fact--that one implication of the letter to Philemon is that Christians should not own Christians. That's quite different from asserting that people may not own people, period.

In 17th-century Virginia there were cases of newly baptized slaves successfully suing for their freedom. The result was that in 1667 the colony's House of Burgesses (America's first legislature) passed a law specifying that baptism was not grounds for manumission, with other colonies soon following suit. Of course, if one is willing to believe in the first place that enslaving people is okay if your purpose is to share Christ with them, it's not much of a leap from there to convincing yourself that retaining them post-Christianization is okay so long as you "...provide your slaves with what is right and fair..." (as interpreted by the slaveholder).

I think it's a pretty weaselly argument to make that the New Testament doesn't condone slavery. The comparison to abolitionist Philadephia Convention delegates doesn't work for me--they may not have had the numbers to end slavery, but they made their personal moral objections to the institution explicit and crystal-clear.
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Not slaves but certainly the descendents of Western slaves. And you either understand what that means or you don't care to.
Actually, I would like to understand what you mean here but don't. Present-day African-Americans are able to partake in the generally high standard of living in this country insofar as their fundamental human rights have (finally) been acknowledged by its laws. And that outcome is to be credited to slavery how?
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #323
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As for the slaves...

Think about it, something "being the norm" never stopped Christians from putting a taboo on it. They only put taboos on what they considered to be sinful and bad, and tried to live "just and righteous" lives... with slaves.

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No one really did it?

Come on! In Seattle alone, I saw FOUR posters in one neighborhood on the way to work after the Kony Poster Extravaganza took place!

One was even written in ballpoint pen, with a frowny-face drawn on it. That sign alone saved 0.67 children, I'm sure.
There were a bunch near cross-roads in Bellevue, if you know where that is. It was ridiculous. Also had some guy raising awareness about Kony outside of Target. Seattlites, man.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #324
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And that outcome is to be credited to slavery how?
They wouldn't have otherwise been here will be the argument.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:26 PM   #325
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They wouldn't have otherwise been here will be the argument.
Yeah, you'd think a simple "thank you" would be in order.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:44 PM   #326
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With out slavery there would be no Oprah.

Think about it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:52 PM   #327
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...woah.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #328
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Having been a missionary for eleven years, I take exception to the broad brush missionaries are being painted with. My guess is most of you have very little real, personal experience with actual missionaries.

I get the criticisms--I read (and loved) The Posionwood Bible--but at the same time, that kind of missionary, and the kind you all are talking about has nothing to do with most of the missionaries I know. I would hope it has nothing to do with me or the work I did either.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:22 PM   #329
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Having been a missionary for eleven years, I take exception to the broad brush missionaries are being painted with. My guess is most of you have very little real, personal experience with actual missionaries.

I get the criticisms--I read (and loved) The Posionwood Bible--but at the same time, that kind of missionary, and the kind you all are talking about has nothing to do with most of the missionaries I know. I would hope it has nothing to do with me or the work I did either.
Nobody's painting missionaries with a broad brush, we're simply stating that there are issues with certain missionaries and sponsor companies. I understand that the missionaries you know have nothing to do with that, same with several great missionaries I know. But there is a problem and I think it's been ignored for far too long.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #330
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With out slavery there would be no Oprah.

Think about it.
you just blew my mind.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:52 AM   #331
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There were a bunch near cross-roads in Bellevue, if you know where that is. It was ridiculous. Also had some guy raising awareness about Kony outside of Target. Seattlites, man.
I love Crossroads! Half Price Books ... food court!

But I beg your pardon, I think both Bellevuians and Seattlites would take offense to being lumped in together as "Seattlites."
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #332
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Not right at all that his mother gave him a stun gun, and rules are rules. But if you complain and basically the victim is blamed, for the way he dresses and accessorizes, I guess you'd feel desperate. If you follow that logic isn't any and all bullying based upon appearance (that falls outside of any one individual's definition of "normal") justifiable by a bully or a school admin? Some studies say that appearance is the number one "reason" for bullying.

indystar.com

The 17-year-old Arsenal Tech High School student who brought a stun gun to school to scare away bullies has been expelled.

Darnell "Dynasty" Young and his mother, Chelisa Grimes, found out late Monday that an independent arbitrator who presided over an expulsion hearing last Wednesday decided to expel him until Jan. 7, 2013. He cannot finish his junior year and he will miss the first semester of his senior year.

"I couldn’t believe that they did it," Grimes said. "They really kicked him out."

Grimes and Young can appeal to the Indianapolis Public Schools school board and the courts if necessary, but Grimes said they're still weighing their options. Young said he plans to get his GED and go to college.

Young, who's openly gay, was suspended pending expulsion April 16 after he brought a stun gun to school, raised it in the air and fired it to scare away six kids who threatened to beat him up during a passing period. Grimes said she gave him the stun gun to protect himself from students who repeatedly called him names and threatened to beat him up. Some students threw rocks at him as he walked home from his after-school job one day. Grimes said she and her son complained to the school staff about bullying several times throughout the school year, but staff members told them that Young called attention to himself because he liked to accessorize his outfits with Grimes' jewelry and purses.

Young's story has gained national attention. He and Grimes have appeared on CNN and "Good Morning America." Kris Jenner, the mother of the Kardashian sisters, tweeted a message of support to Young on Sunday.

Young said he has been overwhelmed by the support he has received. Some of his supporters in Indianapolis are planning a rally before an IPS school board meeting May 15 to raise awareness about Young's case and to pressure the school board to take more steps to prevent bullying. School Board member Samantha Adair-White has called for an independent investigation into the incident, but she said last week she's not sure if enough school board members will support her request to proceed.

The spokeswoman for IPS could not be reached for comment this morning, but Mary Louise Bewley issued a statement. It concluded, "While the district does not condone bullying, it also does not allow weapons to be brought on our school campuses for any reason. Students who violate this rule will be held accountable."
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:47 PM   #333
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I love Crossroads! Half Price Books ... food court!

But I beg your pardon, I think both Bellevuians and Seattlites would take offense to being lumped in together as "Seattlites."
Never heard the term Bellevuian before, I'm going to start using it now. I definitely think both sides would resent being lumped in with the other side. Very different cultures fur sure,
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:48 PM   #334
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I realized as I was typing it that I had now idea what people from Bellevue called themselves! Ha.

But seriously - different worlds, right? I'm baffled by the people in Seattle who are always "oh, the east side ... ugh! I never go there!" and the people on the east side who say the same thing about Seattle.

(Although now with one of the ways across the lake being a tollway, I can at least understand the sentiment a little. )
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:03 PM   #335
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"While the district does not condone bullying..."
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staff members told them that Young called attention to himself because he liked to accessorize his outfits with Grimes' jewelry and purses.
Um. Yeah. Course, we're going by what Grimes said the response was, but still, if that's the case...

I sympathize with the poor kid, sounds like he's had to deal with some horrific situations. Still, though, bringing any sort of gun to school is a bad idea and he should be punished for that.

Course, the kids who've been attacking him should be punished as well for what they've done. Throwing rocks is dangerous and uncalled for, too.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:11 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Not right at all that his mother gave him a stun gun, and rules are rules. But if you complain and basically the victim is blamed, for the way he dresses and accessorizes, I guess you'd feel desperate. If you follow that logic isn't any and all bullying based upon appearance (that falls outside of any one individual's definition of "normal") justifiable by a bully or a school admin? Some studies say that appearance is the number one "reason" for bullying.

indystar.com

The 17-year-old Arsenal Tech High School student who brought a stun gun to school to scare away bullies has been expelled.

Darnell "Dynasty" Young and his mother, Chelisa Grimes, found out late Monday that an independent arbitrator who presided over an expulsion hearing last Wednesday decided to expel him until Jan. 7, 2013. He cannot finish his junior year and he will miss the first semester of his senior year.

"I couldn’t believe that they did it," Grimes said. "They really kicked him out."

Grimes and Young can appeal to the Indianapolis Public Schools school board and the courts if necessary, but Grimes said they're still weighing their options. Young said he plans to get his GED and go to college.

Young, who's openly gay, was suspended pending expulsion April 16 after he brought a stun gun to school, raised it in the air and fired it to scare away six kids who threatened to beat him up during a passing period. Grimes said she gave him the stun gun to protect himself from students who repeatedly called him names and threatened to beat him up. Some students threw rocks at him as he walked home from his after-school job one day. Grimes said she and her son complained to the school staff about bullying several times throughout the school year, but staff members told them that Young called attention to himself because he liked to accessorize his outfits with Grimes' jewelry and purses.

Young's story has gained national attention. He and Grimes have appeared on CNN and "Good Morning America." Kris Jenner, the mother of the Kardashian sisters, tweeted a message of support to Young on Sunday.

Young said he has been overwhelmed by the support he has received. Some of his supporters in Indianapolis are planning a rally before an IPS school board meeting May 15 to raise awareness about Young's case and to pressure the school board to take more steps to prevent bullying. School Board member Samantha Adair-White has called for an independent investigation into the incident, but she said last week she's not sure if enough school board members will support her request to proceed.

The spokeswoman for IPS could not be reached for comment this morning, but Mary Louise Bewley issued a statement. It concluded, "While the district does not condone bullying, it also does not allow weapons to be brought on our school campuses for any reason. Students who violate this rule will be held accountable."
Just a thought, most kids wouldn't need to bring weapons into school if there is no reason for them to feel in danger. Make school a safer environment from bullies instead of letting things escalate.


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I realized as I was typing it that I had now idea what people from Bellevue called themselves! Ha.

But seriously - different worlds, right? I'm baffled by the people in Seattle who are always "oh, the east side ... ugh! I never go there!" and the people on the east side who say the same thing about Seattle.

(Although now with one of the ways across the lake being a tollway, I can at least understand the sentiment a little. )
Beats me, I live close to i-90 and for me it's convenient to get to both Seattle and Bellevue. I only go to Bellevue more often because of free parking, but I love Seattle. So many awesome shops tucked away and better food. Bellevue is the land where people live in expensive, run down little houses while driving BMW/Land Rover/Mercedes vehicles and think Renton is a dangerous area. Seattle is an area where most people live in apartments, either drive cheap cars or don't drive at all, and they're a lot more interested in art and that cool new independent coffee shop than they are in the next shiniest shopping complex.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #337
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(But seriously - I LOVE the Crossroads Mall!)
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #338
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The spokeswoman for IPS could not be reached for comment this morning, but Mary Louise Bewley issued a statement. It concluded, "While the district does not condone bullying, it also does not allow weapons to be brought on our school campuses for any reason. Students who violate this rule will be held accountable."
Except the case has made it abundantly clear that these shitheads do condone bullying if you dress effeminately.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:29 PM   #339
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Except the case has made it abundantly clear that ]these shitheads do condone bullying if you dress effeminately.
Yes, and that's the problem.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:52 PM   #340
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Hacktivist group Anonymous has reportedly tracked down the man who bullied Amanda Todd, a 15-year-old Canadian girl who committed suicide after suffering torment that led to depression and anxiety.
Anonymous named Todd's alleged bully on Monday in a post on Pastebin.com. The accusers allege that the man who targeted Todd, made her flash him and then turned her life into a living nightmare is a 30-year-old from New Westminster, British Columbia. The post describes him as the man who "extorted amanda todd for pictures. This is the pedophile that social engineered Amanda Todd into supplying him nude pictures."
Anonymous also revealed his address.
Vice magazine posted information that reportedly further links Todd to the alleged bully, including Google Map screenshots of his house, his Facebook profile, chat conversations and screenshots from a "jailbait" website account supposedly tied to the man.
Vice reports that Anonymous got involved in tracking down Todd's bully after nude autopsy photos of deceased Amanda Todd leaked online.
Anonymous commented on its involvement in finding those linked to Todd's suicide.
“We generally don’t like to deal with police first hand but were compelled to put our skills to good use protecting kids,” read an email sent by Anonymous to Canada's CTV News. “Ironically we have some good people in Vancouver who brought this to our admin’s attention. It’s a very sad story that affects all of us.”
Amanda Todd's Alleged Bully Named By Anonymous After Teen's Tragic Suicide

I never thought I would ever say this, but I support Anonymous in this action. Internet bullying is beyond out of control, and lawmakers are taking forever to do something about it. The internet has been around for nearly 20 years, and users have been aware of online harassment for around 10 years or more. That is too long to not do anything to stop online bullying. People are scared, reputations are being destroyed, suicides are occurring, and the mentally ill people who don't care who they hurt are not stopped.

I thought Anonymous was a dangerous hacking group made up of anarchists. But if they are taking justice into their hands because lawmakers are taking too long, then I'm on their side. As long as they are exposing these people who are ruining lives, I support them. Now if they get out of line and start to harass anyone over the slightest thing, I will withdraw my support. I also am not too crazy that they exposed this alleged bully's address, but at least they exposed his name. Now if its the wrong person, well, the most I can say Anonymous is doing more than governments are to stop cyberbullying.
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