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Old 06-23-2016, 11:55 PM   #121
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Fair enough. I suppose I meant British PM.


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Yes, I realised you probably did right after I clicked post. Still, any chance to bring up Tony Abbott's hilariously unsuccessful prime ministership after his landslide victory.

It will be interesting to see how long Cameron lasts, whether he falls on his sword or is forced to go, and if it's an abrupt or managed transition. I see a whole bunch of pro-Brexit Tories are publicly stating support for him, which to me suggests he's actually a dead man walking. "We support him until we don't."

Hell, it's even possible there might be an early election - there are provisions for that under their fixed term legislation.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:55 PM   #122
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No. Exhibit A: Tony Abbott.


From what little I know, I'm inclined to agree.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:56 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Hey, if Scotland leaves, he'll be known for breaking up two unions. Way to go, Cammie!

Overnight, he just received Richard Nixon or Neville Chamberlain-style pariah status. Way to fucking go.


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Old 06-23-2016, 11:57 PM   #124
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I was surprised to see how strongly Wales voted to leave, but I suppose large parts of it share in the post-industrial, post-Thatcher malaise that affects pro-leave regions of northern England.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-23-2016, 11:58 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by digitize View Post
Can we now call David Cameron the worst PM in at least modern history?

I used to respect the guy.


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I fear this is far larger than David Cameron. Sort of like blaming Obama were the United States to elect Trump. Gotta blame the people.

Note I'm not comparing the two politicians.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:58 PM   #126
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This has been an educational couple of hours. I look forward to learning a lot more in the coming days.

Finally turning everything off now. Stay gold, UK posters.
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:59 PM   #127
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From what I've read, the interesting decisions now really go to Merkel and Hollande, in figuring out what access to European markets the UK gets. Give them Norway-style access and things won't change much, sparing a lot of potential economic pain. But that could inspire other similar exits.


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Old 06-24-2016, 12:01 AM   #128
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From what I've read, the interesting decisions now really go to Merkel and Hollande, in figuring out what access to European markets the UK gets. Give them Norway-style access and things won't change much, sparing a lot of potential economic pain. But that could inspire other similar exits.


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I thought they - or at least Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany's finance minister - had already ruled out arrangements similar to Norway and Switzerland.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-24-2016, 12:03 AM   #129
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I thought they - or at least Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany's finance minister - had already ruled out arrangements similar to Norway and Switzerland.

But there are two years to negotiate that, and of course the German leadership had to sound as tough as possible. Two years for Germany to contemplate losing free exports to the huge market of the EU. We'll see whether they'll be willing to make their point.


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Old 06-24-2016, 12:11 AM   #130
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I should be asleep, but this is bouncing through my head ...

Quote:
You say the price of my love's not a price that you're willing to pay
You cry in your tea which you hurl in the sea when you see me go by
Why so sad?
Remember we made an arrangement when you went away
Now you're making me mad
Remember despite our estrangement, I'm your man

You'll be back
Soon you'll see
You'll remember you belong to me
You'll be back
Time will tell
You'll remember that I served you well

Oceans rise, empires fall
We have seen each other through it all
And when push comes to shove,
I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love

Da dada da da
Da dadada dayada
Dada da da dayada

Da dada da da
Da dadada dayada
Dada da da da

You say our love is draining and you can't go on
You'll be the one complaining when I am gone

And, no, don't change the subject
'Cause you're my favorite subject
My sweet, submissive subject
My loyal, royal subject
Forever and ever and ever and ever and ever

You'll be back
Like before
I will fight the fight and win the war
For your love
For your praise
And I'll love you till my dying days

When you're gone, I'll go mad
So don't throw away this thing we had
'Cause when push comes to shove
I will kill your friends and family to remind you of my love
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Old 06-24-2016, 12:17 AM   #131
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Old people suck

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Old 06-24-2016, 12:27 AM   #132
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Pound - down
Euro - down
US dollar - up
MAGA
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Old 06-24-2016, 12:36 AM   #133
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Trump is going to be in the UK today. Golf course in Scotland. Labour had a 33-40% crossover to Leave in Industrial blue collar areas. Think Pennsylvania - Ohio come fall. Parallel populist uprisings.


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Old 06-24-2016, 12:39 AM   #134
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All the British people that voted for remain should migrate to Scotland while it is still possible.
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Old 06-24-2016, 01:26 AM   #135
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I was surprised to see how strongly Wales voted to leave, but I suppose large parts of it share in the post-industrial, post-Thatcher malaise that affects pro-leave regions of northern England.
Plaid Cymru also supported Leave, in the hope it would lead to Welsh independence.
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Old 06-24-2016, 01:28 AM   #136
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bono never shuts his fat arse mouth up, why hasn't he said anything about brexit
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Old 06-24-2016, 01:38 AM   #137
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I'm conflicted and I'm still wide awake so I figured that I need to write down my thoughts. I would have never expected this to go through, I'm shocked.

I was not in favour of Brexit and I'm not happy about the result, yet the EU is not sustainable the way it is. Something needs to be done and maybe it takes something extreme like this referendum to wake them up. These extreme right swings in almost all Western European nations are no accident, and they are scary as fuck.

I also think it's way too simple to say the pro-leave voters are all nationalist xenophobes. The campaign was ugly, but the issues are very complex. Just how are you going to integrate millions of migrants and refugees? There was just an example in the Swiss media the other day about a single mom working two jobs trying to get by and making less than an immigrant family from Ethiopia in which nobody works. Can one really blame people for getting angry?
Just today 4500 people were picked up in the Mediterranean. I want to help as much as the next person but how can this be sustainable long-term?

And worst of all, the actual refugees who desperately need immediate help? Those are the ones that can't get out and are still starving in Syria.
So yeah, I'm sure xenophobia played a role. The UK has never exactly embraced its multicultural society, but the issues are far more complex in my opinion.

I also don't think this will have hugely catastrophic consequences for the UK. The volatile markets are no surprise but it'll stabilize. It'll be years before the UK actually exits.
I realise that Switzerland is not nearly as important to the EU as the UK is, but time and again when the Swiss voted against the EU, the mess with the immigration referendum or the decoupling of the Swiss Franc and the Euro, disaster was just on the horizon according to the media. Highly skilled workers would leave, big corporations would leave, trade would be near impossible due to the strong Franc and none of it came true. Panicky markets sure, long-term serious consequences not so much.

I don't know enough about the Scottish and Irish situations, but that certainly has the potential to be messy to say the least. But again, I suspect over the next few years there will be a bilateral agreement between the EU and the UK similar to the Swiss and Norwegian and not a lot will actually change.

Apart from the migration issue, I don't think the European super-state ideas can really work on a continent so rich with history and culture. In the grand scheme of things, peace in Europe is a very recent phenomenon. If different cultures could easily put aside their differences, we wouldn't have half the wars we have on this planet.
And yet despite all this, I like the idea of a unified Europe. I want it to work, but I don't have much faith in the human race these days.

Alas, it remains to be seen what will happen.


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Old 06-24-2016, 01:45 AM   #138
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Thanks for your post, I see things similar to you.
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Old 06-24-2016, 01:54 AM   #139
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Let's be honest, that was totally all Larry.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:07 AM   #140
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Cameron has resigned.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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