Brexit

[zuma]

Originally Posted by mama cass

no, that's not the problem - the problem is the narrow win - 3.98% is not sufficient to be democratic! in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC, there was a 34% majority (67/33), so a huuuuge difference

Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zuma]

Originally Posted by nielsgov

That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.

So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Caleb8844]

Originally Posted by nielsgov

That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.

I agree. This is why I support recalling all presidents the minute their approval ratings dip below 50. The people have re-spoken.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[LuckyNumber7]

Looks like team England is having some regrexit feels. They didn't know Iceland could win and now they want a do over but sadly they've already chosen to Brexit the euro.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by zuma

or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding.

What's the problem with this? This referendum isn't binding.

It would be a brave parliament that defies a majority - even a small one - but it can.

[Irvine511]

All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?

[deep]

A 51-47 win with a 55% voter turnout is not legit win?

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by deep

A 51-47 win with a 55% voter turnout is not legit win?

Interesting math.

[iron yuppie]

I wasn't aware that the referendum isn't binding - that puts an interesting spin on all this. I would hope that Parliament, if they are the ones to make the final call, lets things settle down a little bit before deciding whether to stay or leave. Acting in the midst of the immediate economic aftershock, when things are bound to look especially bad, would probably not be wise.

[deep]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Interesting math.

The numbers are real.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?

The TPP
Isn't that dead. Hillary now says she is against it and so has Trump.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by deep

The numbers are real.

Are you referring to the Brexit? The referendum? With two choices? That had a 72% turnout?

I'm a bit lost.

[deep]

Correct that was 72% turnout
and 52-48 and people are saying it really should not count.

not enough of a win margin and not everybody voted


the numbers I posted are the 2012 Presidential election, should that have been a do over, because of the low turn out or small margin?

[deep]

I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics. The leave vote was mostly driven by sovereignty. I am very skeptical of all these people saying they voted 'leave' but didn't really want it. Seems like something a sore loser that voted 'remain' could easily make up to try discredit the leave win.

[LuckyNumber7]

I'm mildly agreeing with deep here...

I don't think "regrexit" is a real thing. Just some bull shit the media made up to piss you off. Interview a few folks who say they regret it and paint this picture of how suddenly a new vote must be done (as though no conditions would change except for regretful voters switching sides).

[Axver]

But I didn't think a leopard would eat MY face!

[Salome]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

I agree, all the referendum has managed to achieve is to divide the voters in the UK, divide the countries within the UK, cause immense political instability and bring forward blatant racism.
Politicians should have taken their responsibility and decided the best way forward based on their best insights not by playing a game of 'who plays with the emotions of the electorate best'.

Originally Posted by deep

I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics.

Well, to be honest, only one side exaggerated their claims - camp Stay.

Camp Leave followed the Donald Trump handbook of politics by telling lies and cover them up with more lies (preferably within a catchphrase) and add a smidgen of xenophobia.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by zuma

Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

in Britain, referenda are not normally binding - sovereignty lies with parliament

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by zuma

So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it depends on the constitution - in Britain there isn't a written constitution - we're an usual case apparently LOL

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?

Irvine, you're always the voice of reason round here