boycott Stoli? boycott Sochi 2014?

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He never specifically says they will arrest gay athletes or tourists though, unless they cross this propaganda law. That's what confused me about a lot of the headlines I saw yesterday.
 
cobl04 said:
He never specifically says they will arrest gay athletes or tourists though, unless they cross this propaganda law. That's what confused me about a lot of the headlines I saw yesterday.
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that's what's at issue. what constitutes gay "propaganda"? is saying, "i'm gay" propaganda? is saying, "i'm so thrilled to get a bronze in the women's bobsled, i'd like to thank my parents and my partner, Helga, for sticking with me all these years" also propaganda?

what the law is designed to do is to let police crack skulls whenever they wish and give cover to skinheads who like to torture gay teens like in the video i originally posted.

this law is barbaric, and while it begs the question of why we don't do more about, say, hanging gay teenagers in Iran or Saudi Arabia, neither of these countries are hosting the freaking Olympics.
 
Irvine511 said:
this law is barbaric, and while it begs the question of why we don't do more about, say, hanging gay teenagers in Iran or Saudi Arabia, neither of these countries are hosting the freaking Olympics.
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Which brings me back to my original point that it seems to me that it's far more appropriate to deal with obvious violations of human rights at the stage where the Olympic games are actually awarded than now. Now, athletes who have in many cases given their lives for one day, one chance are supposed to give that up because nobody had the balls to simply not award the games to Russia (or China)? Because money and corporate interests win out when these decisions are made?

That's why I don't support boycotting the Olympics.
 
While I respect athletes immensely, I would like to think any effort or dedication that is put into training is fairly minimal when compared to taking a stance on any human right's issue. The whole business of the Olympics is fairly circumspect anyway, as corrupt as anything else is now days. Plus for the most part it's individual honours, they aren't doing it for us or anyone else.

But as I said i'm not particularly in favour of a boycott, unless you follow your reasoning through and actually take the same stance with all human right's abuses, an Olympic boycott would be a relatively minor inconvenience, when we continue to do business every single day selling arms and buying oil from what are probably equally bad regimes or worse elsewhere.
 
anitram said:
That's why I don't support boycotting the Olympics.
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If US and Canadian athletes have the risk of actually being arrested for being homosexual, then how would that factor into your decision.
 
anitram said:
That's why I don't support boycotting the Olympics.
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i don't think a boycott is a good idea. i do think, however, that open defiance of Russian law is. we need to embarrass Russia as much as we can.



AEON said:
If US and Canadian athletes have the risk of actually being arrested for being homosexual, then how would that factor into your decision.
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Sochi Athletes Subject to Anti-Gay Law - Russian Minister Vitaly Mutko


This article contains information not suitable for readers younger than 18 years of age, according to Russian legislation.

MOSCOW, August 1 (R-Sport) - Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko warned Thursday that athletes and visitors to the Sochi Olympics will be subject to the country's laws against promoting homosexuality, contradicting a statement from the International Olympic Committee that the government had promised they would be exempt.

The IOC told R-Sport Friday it "has received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games," which start February 7.

But in the first reaction from the government since the IOC made that claim, Mutko appeared to set the record straight.

"No one is forbidding an athlete with non-traditional sexual orientation from coming to Sochi, but if he goes onto the street and starts propagandizing it, then of course he will be held accountable," Mutko told R-Sport.

The legislation, signed into law by President Vladimir Putin in June, levies fines for such offenses from 800,000 rubles ($24,000) to 1 million rubles ($30,500) for legal entities, from 4,000 rubles ($120) to 5,000 rubles ($150) for individuals and from 40,000 rubles ($1,220) to 50,000 rubles ($1,530) for officials.

Legal entities may also be suspended for 90 days for the promotion of “non-traditional sexual relations” toward children.

In its statement the IOC noted that “this legislation has just been passed into law and it remains to be seen whether and how it will be implemented, particularly as regards the Games in Sochi.”

While the law’s proponents argue it is aimed at protecting children from harmful influences, critics allege the move is part of a broader crackdown on Russia’s gay community.

Russia has come under international criticism, including from the European Court of Human Rights, for its treatment of gay people.

Some gay bars in North America have refused to stock Russian vodka as a sign of protest at the law, and the legislation has attracted calls from activists around the world to boycott Russia’s first Winter Olympics.
In one protest in the United States Wednesday, dozens of gay-rights advocates dumped bottles of vodka outside the Russian consulate in New York.

The protesters also called for the corporate sponsors of the Sochi Games, including Coca-Cola, Visa, McDonald’s, Procter & Gamble, and Samsung to pull their backing.

Sochi Athletes Subject to Anti-Gay Law - Russian Minister | Sports | RIA Novosti
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will all athletes be safe? will all spectators be safe?
 
anitram said:
Which brings me back to my original point that it seems to me that it's far more appropriate to deal with obvious violations of human rights at the stage where the Olympic games are actually awarded than now. Now, athletes who have in many cases given their lives for one day, one chance are supposed to give that up because nobody had the balls to simply not award the games to Russia (or China)? Because money and corporate interests win out when these decisions are made?

That's why I don't support boycotting the Olympics.
Click to expand...

:up:
 
another thought:

Don't Boycott: Ban Russia From Their Own Winter Olympics
Posted: 08/07/2013 5:54 pm


Over the last two weeks there has been a lot of debate about taking Olympic action against Russia for the country's anti-gay laws. Some say athletes should march into the Opening Ceremony holding rainbow flags, but that would likely result in disqualifications for said athletes, based on the Olympic Charter (rule 50, if you're looking). Others are putting together letters of petition asking the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to take a stand against the Russian laws, but a simple public statement by the IOC would get folded up and used as a coaster in the Kremlin. Many have called for a boycott of the Olympics by countries like the U.S., but boycotts don't directly hit the Russians. Asking the United States and other nations to boycott the Olympics simply punishes 19-year-old athletes, not Vladamir Putin. Buying Ketel One instead of Stolichnaya might take a swipe at a business owner in Moscow or a factory worker in St. Petersburg, but it's just a pesky mosquito to the Russian government. And caviar? Who eats it anyway?

To make a real statement, to send a message to the Russians that these laws cannot stand, the IOC has to go a step further. Instead of the rest of the world refusing to go to Sochi, there's one step that the IOC can take that will land a wake-up slap on the face of the Kremlin: Ban Russia from competing in their own Winter Olympic Games.

Why debate the exclusion of American, Canadian, British and other athletes when it's Russia that's in violation here? The new Russian law is in clear and direct conflict with the Olympic Charter, creating a system of discrimination that forces LGBT athletes into a life of fear and isolation. "The practice of sport is a human right," the charter reads. "Every individual must have the possibility of practising sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." That's not just an isolated sentence in the midst of dozens of charter pages; it's right up front, in the section called "Fundamental Principles of Olympism." That's "fundamental" as in "essential to the existence of the Olympics." And the Russian law doesn't just violate one word or one clause of the Olympic Charter; it violates the entire statement. The law doesn't just punish Russian athletes; it subjects competitors from every nation to discrimination and flies in the face of the Olympic spirit.

While an Olympic ban for Russia may sound like a mountain to climb, it's been done before, and for similar reasons. In 1964 the IOC banned South Africa from Olympic competition because of the nation's apartheid policies. Despite the South Africans claiming that they would add black athletes to their Olympic team that year, the IOC demanded that the South African government publicly renounce all racial discrimination in sport. The white-majority government of South Africa refused, and they were banned from Olympic participation until 1992. Similarly, Rhodesia was banned from the Olympics just four days before the 1972 Munich Games began, because of anti-black racist policies in the nation. That nation, which collapsed in 1979, never competed in an Olympic Games. Afghanistan was banned from the 2000 Summer Games because of human-rights violations against women under the Taliban; they were readmitted four years later upon the inclusion of female Olympians. Germany was banned from several Games for their involvement in World War I and World War II. And most recently, India was banned from the Olympics late last year after the IOC rejected the outcome of Indian Olympic Association elections. When India held new elections this spring with a different outcome, the IOC lifted the ban. If political elections are enough to get a nation banned from Olympic competition, a ban for the criminalization of an entire class of people should be a no-brainer.

There's growing support within the IOC for doing something. On Sept. 10 the organization will elect its new president. One of the six main candidates, Puerto Rico's Richard Carrión, has opened the door to action. "We should use all the avenues possible for influence and diplomacy with Russian officials, so that this legislation will not create a problem for our athletes," Carrión said last week. But even if they were able to convince Russia to carve out a "bubble" in the law to exempt all of Sochi for two weeks, Russian LGBT athletes would face arrest as soon as the Olympics ended. The IOC's action should seek to overturn the law, and banning Russia from the Olympics is the best way to accomplish that.

Unlike other suggestions, the repercussions of an Olympic ban would have a ripple effect throughout Russia. While the Russians would love an American boycott of the Games -- more medals for them -- being banned from competition at their own Games would help drive public sentiment. Instead of asking our athletes to carry messages that would fall on deaf Russian ears, it would drive Russian Olympic hopefuls to speak out to their own government.

Just the threat of these kinds of bans have had a direct influence in the past, most recently on the 2012 Games. After the ban of Afghanistan, calls swelled in 2008 for Olympic bans of Saudi Arabia and Qatar due to the nations' failure to include women on their Olympic teams. Four years later, Saudi Arabian and Qatar included a total of six women on their Olympic teams; these were the first women ever to represent these two nations at the Games.

Calling for a Russian Olympic ban also puts the onus for action squarely where it belongs: on the IOC. The IOC chose Russia to host the Games. Human-rights violations aren't new to the former Soviet state. This is their problem, they need to fix it, and they need to send a clear, strong message. That message would also put other nations on notice. While many countries with severe anti-gay policies -- like Nigeria and Cameroon -- won't compete in Sochi, they certainly have plans for the Summer Games in 2016. Banning the Russians now would effect change across continents.

You can dump gallons of Stoli into the gutter of Santa Monica Blvd. You can get every Western nation to boycott the Winter Games. You can have every American Olympian send a message to Putin that they disagree with the Russian anti-gay laws. The IOC can make a big statement against anti-gay laws on every TV station in the world. Every bit of that will fall on deaf ears in the Kremlin. Instead, ban Russia from their own Games. They'll get that message loud and clear.

Don't Boycott: Ban Russia From Their Own Winter Olympics | Cyd Zeigler
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is it 1936 all over again?

(CNN) -- Usually when we talk about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin we focus on two men -- Adolf Hitler and Jesse Owens -- and rightfully so. They are the two with an undeniable impact on history, albeit in vastly different ways.

But in light of President Barack Obama's recent remarks on "The Tonight Show" denouncing Russia's new anti-gay laws, laws that have led to bloodshed in the streets, it is important that we remember Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller.

They too were at those games. They too left a mark.

You see, the day before they were scheduled to run in the 400-meter relay, their coach, Dean Cromwell, replaced them.

They were not injured.

They did not break any team rules nor were they disqualified for any violations.

They were, however, Jewish, and this was Nazi Germany, which had adopted the Nuremberg laws limiting Jewish citizens' rights a year earlier. Apparently, Cromwell, along with leaders from the U.S. Olympic Committee, decided it would be best if Glickman and Stoller did not compete.

At the time I'm sure it seemed like a decision that would only hurt the two men. After all, the 400, led by Owens, still won gold.

Today we know better.

Today we look at that decision and lower our heads in shame, understanding that it made us complicit with something that evolved into a far worse crime than unjustly replacing a pair of sprinters. In the moment when we should have spoken up, we remained silent.
And so here we are again: an Olympics on the horizon, another host country with recently legislated laws persecuting a group of people, and for a while, we were silent.

And then Tuesday happened.

"I've been very clear that when it comes to universal rights, when it comes to people's basic freedoms, that whether you are discriminating on the basis of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, you are violating the basic morality that I think should transcend every country," Obama said, going on to talk about how Russia's treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people goes against the spirit of the Olympics.

He did not call for a boycott.

But on Wednesday he canceled a one-on-one meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin planned for September. The White House cited Russia's decision to grant asylum to National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden and "lack of progress on issues such as missile defense and arms control" among other reasons. But it also mentioned human rights issues.

Recently, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry received a letter from 88 members of Congress -- Republicans and Democrats -- urging him to do something to guarantee the safety of LGBT Americans visiting Russia during that time. That leaves 447 lawmakers we should be asking why they did not sign that letter.

Last month Buzzfeed provided the world photos of LGBT people being violently beaten by anti-gay protesters and police in Russia.

There are reports of LGBT teens being kidnapped, bullied, tortured and killed.

Russian officials have said they don't condone the attacks, but police have stood by while they happened and then arrested the battered victims for being gay. And because it is unclear whether or not the anti-gay laws will be enforced during the Olympics, the safety of all Americans -- because you can be arrested if police think you look gay or even if you support gays -- is in question.

Which brings me to: Why aren't the names of all 535 members of Congress on that letter?

In talking about the 1936 Olympics, I do not equate what is happening in Russia to what happened to Jewish people during World War II. I just want to remind you that the Holocaust did not happen overnight. It was subtle.

Surgical.

In silence.

These new anti-gay laws are disturbingly similar to the anti-Semitic Nuremberg laws Hitler passed before the 1936 Olympics. And with the Pew Institute finding 84% of Russians believe society should reject gay people, perhaps some saying they object to gays for fear of arrest, the world should question how far Russia intends to go.

We should question how far Russia, our lukewarm ally, intends to go and what our participation in the 2014 Olympic Games will look like generations from now.

In one of his final interviews before passing away in 2001, Glickman told the San Diego Jewish Press-Heritage that there had been some talk of boycotting the 1936 Olympics because of Hitler, but no one foresaw what would happen to the Jews a short time later.
"There is no way in the world that I would think of going to Nazi Germany," he said. "The Holocaust and those things around Nazi Germany which we all loathe weren't in existence in 1936."

No one can predict the future. But this week Obama showed he learned an important lesson from our Olympic past -- offering silence to appease evil is a senseless endeavor because evil will never be satisfied. Now it's our turn to speak up. There are 447 members of Congress who have yet to sign that letter to Kerry -- we need to be asking why.

Opinion: Haunting lesson of Nazi Olympics - CNN.com
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i don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine Putin's Russia rounding up and jailing, or interning, gay people.

in many ways, this is one of my broader fears. the enormous success of the gay rights movement over the past 30 years has enabled millions of gay people across the world to come out and live open lives. but such success can and does inspire backlash, and now that gays and lesbians are visible, they are therefore visible as scapegoats especially in a country like Russia that faces a demographic collapse in the form of a declining birthrate and shrinking life expectancy. in the US, and even in Interference, we have people who try to link SSM to, say, urban poverty and unwed African-American mothers. is it so much of a stretch to think Russia (and other countries) might have hteir own social problems that they'll blame on gay people? gays were tossed into the ovens alongside jews at Auschwitz. gays are easy to vilify and demonize. it's easy to marshall up both religious and state-centric imagined fears of the threats a minority population may pose. why not again? why not in Russia?
 
Pole vault great Yelena Isinbayeva condemned homosexuality Thursday after criticizing competitors who painted their fingernails in rainbow colors to support gays and lesbians in the face of a new anti-gay law in Russia.
The Russian, who won her third world title Tuesday in front of a boisterous home crowd, came out in favor of the law which has drawn sharp criticism and led Western activists to call for a boycott of next year's Winter Olympics in the Russian resort of Sochi.
"If we allow to promote and do all this stuff on the street, we are very afraid about our nation because we consider ourselves like normal, standard people," Isinbayeva, a two-time Olympic champion, said in English. "We just live with boys with woman, woman with boys.
"Everything must be fine. It comes from history. We never had any problems, these problems in Russia, and we don't want to have any in the future."
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Yelena Isinbayeva, Russia Pole Vault Great, Condemns Gays At World Athletics Championships

:slant:
 
You know - I'm am still leaning toward boycotting these olympics. If we cannot guarentee the safety of our athletes and the fans that support them - then why in the world should we send them there? As you all know - I'm a confessed homophobe - but I do not and will not ever condone the mistreatment of any of my brothers and sisters.

Also - I fear that if we're not careful - the "backlash" against the gays may be intense, even in America.

If we do go to the olympics - I absolutely admire the bravery of the gay athletes and fans. Perhaps, in the strange way we humans actually learn, their courage will help us all treat each other with the dignity every person deserves.
 
AEON said:
You know - I'm am still leaning toward boycotting these olympics. If we cannot guarentee the safety of our athletes and the fans that support them - then why in the world should we send them there? As you all know - I'm a confessed homophobe - but I do not and will not ever condone the mistreatment of any of my brothers and sisters.

Also - I fear that if we're not careful - the "backlash" against the gays may be intense, even in America.

If we do go to the olympics - I absolutely admire the bravery of the gay athletes and fans. Perhaps, in the strange way we humans actually learn, their courage will help us all treat each other with the dignity every person deserves.
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For this alone you are not homophobic. You may not understand it, but you don't condemn it or wish gays harm like the Russian lawmakers do.
 
Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva has said she may have been “misunderstood” when she made comments in defence of Russia’s anti-gay laws.

It follows criticism from British heptathlete Louise Hazel who tweeted “Yelena Isinbayeva’s ‘homophobic’ comments have no place in our sport!”

Hazel said to BBC Sport: “The International Olympic Committee should revise her position.”

The 2010 Commonwealth Games champion said it was important for the IOC to act and added that Isinbayeva’s views had left her disappointed and in “deep shock”.

“It should be their first point of call after the championships are over.”

Criticising Swedish athlete Emma Green Tregaro for painting her nails in the colour of the rainbow at this week’s Moscow World Athletics Championships, Isinbayeva said: “It’s unrespectful [sic] to our country, it’s unrespectful [sic] to our citizens, because we are Russians, Maybe we are different from European people and other people from different lands.”

She stated: “If we allow [them] to promote and do all this stuff on the street, we are very afraid about our nation because we consider ourselves like normal, standard people.”

On Friday Isinbayeva said she was opposed to sexual discrimination, and that her English comments in support of her country’s laws may have been misconstrued.

“English is not my first language and I think I may have been misunderstood when I spoke yesterday,” she said in a statement.

“What I wanted to say was that people should respect the laws of other countries particularly when they are guests.

“But let me make it clear I respect the views of my fellow athletes, and let me state in the strongest terms that I am opposed to any discrimination against gay people on the grounds of their sexuality.”

Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva: My anti-gay comments have been ‘misunderstood’ - PinkNews.co.uk
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fair enough i suppose.
 
My guess is if she was really homophobic, and a proud Russian, she wouldn't deny being against gay people. The championship was taking place in Moscow, so she was on home turf. Don't know how well her English is, so maybe something did get lost in translation.
 
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