Biological sex and gender identity: differences and overlaps

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

why do you care?

Allegedly he had to sue to get on the team so he probably can't hit his own weight but suppose he's awesome and set's a new CA girl's softball homerun record. Should there be an asterisk by his name in the record book?

What if his team wins the state championship and other schools around the state feel the need to start recruiting male "ringers" to compete? First one, then two, then three, then four.

Should he be allowed to play college girl's softball and if so take a scholarship away from a female?

Should he be allowed to play female softball in the Olympics?

When would this become a farce for you?

Anyone?

[Irvine511]

Is this like when you try to blame me for African-American children born out of wedlock?

[cobl04]

I get where INDY's coming from (though I don't agree with him) - if Pat walks into this team, and starts absolutely dominating, setting all sorts of records and the like - because males are stronger in most sports (I'm not trying to come off anti-women or anything here, but I think we can all agree here that for example that it is likely that no woman is going to break Usain Bolt's 100m record anytime soon), then I can see how a lot of people would think that is unfair.

[jeevey]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Allegedly he had to sue to get on the team so he probably can't hit his own weight but suppose he's awesome and set's a new CA girl's softball homerun record. Should there be an asterisk by his name in the record book?

What if his team wins the state championship and other schools around the state feel the need to start recruiting male "ringers" to compete? First one, then two, then three, then four.

Should he be allowed to play college girl's softball and if so take a scholarship away from a female?

Should he be allowed to play female softball in the Olympics?

When would this become a farce for you?

Anyone?

So... the most important thing about this young person's life is sports?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Allegedly he had to sue to get on the team so he probably can't hit his own weight but suppose he's awesome and set's a new CA girl's softball homerun record. Should there be an asterisk by his name in the record book?

What if his team wins the state championship and other schools around the state feel the need to start recruiting male "ringers" to compete? First one, then two, then three, then four.

Should he be allowed to play college girl's softball and if so take a scholarship away from a female?

Should he be allowed to play female softball in the Olympics?

When would this become a farce for you?

Anyone?

So, again, it sounds like you just want this kid to stop playing around and act like a man.

And again, you leave me wondering where your previously mentioned empathy comes into play. The more you speak on this topic, the more that 'individual empathy' sounds like lip service.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

What if his team wins the state championship and other schools around the state feel the need to start recruiting male "ringers" to compete? First one, then two, then three, then four.

What, you think teenaged males will want to start identifying as female simply so they can beat up on girls in high school sports? Get the fuck out of here. This person is on the softball team because she is identifying as a female, not because she wanted to pile up stats.

You truly learn nothing. I hope I'm not like this when I get old.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I get where INDY's coming from (though I don't agree with him) - if Pat walks into this team, and starts absolutely dominating, setting all sorts of records and the like - because males are stronger in most sports (I'm not trying to come off anti-women or anything here, but I think we can all agree here that for example that it is likely that no woman is going to break Usain Bolt's 100m record anytime soon), then I can see how a lot of people would think that is unfair.

I'm kinda seeing it as you are on this one thing. How is this even remotely fair to other teams? I realize that it's probably not going to be a common practice, but the fact of the matter is, this team is likely going to be pretty dominate if Pat is good at the game.

[Irvine511]

It's incredible how some ascribe such banal, stupid motivations to what must be the most difficult identity issue of all.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

It's incredible how some ascribe such banal, stupid motivations to what must be the most difficult identity issue of all.

I totally understand that this is a situation that transcends sports, I do. I'm glad that she appears to be so incredibly happy with who she is. I'm also glad that she's being allowed to play on the team that is likely going to lead to far less problems for her (as some mentioned, it's probably insane to think that things would be OK for her in the locker room if she was on the men's team).

That being said, I'm just considering all of the other girls who this game is probably a major focus of their life. I don't know, I'm just saying that I agree with Cobbler, in the environment of just this one thing and not her entire life, this is a little unfair.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Did ya bother to read the article?

I did.
Are you gonna bother commenting on why you make it out like Pat is making this decision so he can leer at women in locker rooms while beating girls in sports?

Another question I would like to see your response on is if you would like it better if Pat joined the male softball team?

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Decades? Millenniums would be more accurate.

Pretty much, yet does it make a difference? Old views are still old and in this case outdated, whether it's a hundred or a thousand years old....

Originally Posted by INDY500

We should ask the girl he displaced on the team who the asshole is.

Why?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Salome

I did.
Are you gonna bother commenting on why you make it out like Pat is making this decision so he can leer at women in locker rooms while beating girls in sports?

Even in 2014... even in California... some of the girls or their parents may have an issue with a post-pubescent male changing in the girl's locker room. Do they get a voice?

[Galeongirl]

Then don't change in the same locker room at the same time if you've a problem with that? Wait five minutes, problem solved.

[anitram]

When I went to high school, there were always areas in the locker room where you could change in private (i.e. a couple of stalls which had curtains, or worst case scenario, in the actual washroom part which had doors). Most girls didn't care but I remember there always being 2 or 3 who just felt more comfortable changing in private and they did that and nobody batted an eye.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Even in 2014... even in California... some of the girls or their parents may have an issue with a post-pubescent male changing in the girl's locker room. Do they get a voice?

i'm very certain the TG student would go to great lengths to change discreetly, if at all. my guess is she probably will change at home or in a private facility.

TG people actually are very considerate and aware of how their difference may be perceived, and most of them don't want to cause anyone else any issues.

and you're also assuming that the girls on the team actually have issues. it could be, even in California, that they're more comfortable with different types of people than you are.

[PhilsFan]

I have never understood all this "what about the locker room" stuff. I was in plenty of locker rooms when I played high school ball. There are private areas of locker rooms, bathroom stalls, whatever. I always changed there. It's really not a big deal at all.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Diemen

So, again, it sounds like you just want this kid to stop playing around and act like a man.

And again, you leave me wondering where your previously mentioned empathy comes into play. The more you speak on this topic, the more that 'individual empathy' sounds like lip service.

Since we have now learned that "sex" and "gender" are not synonymous I'd like to know:

1) At what point, if any, does the fact of two biological sexes trump the Golden Corral smorgasbord of personal gender self-identification?

2) At what point, if any, does the need for businesses, private organizations and society at large to maintain rules, standards, consistency and common sense trump the personal demands of a very few being spurred on by the ideological bubble of post-modern, academia gender-theories?

3) Who, if anyone, gets to say "No, you have a male genitalia so the answer is no."

Examples off the top of my head:

1) As a 17 year-old male this kid's auto insurance rate would be extremely high, must insurance company acquiesce and give him the lower female rate?
In other words, do insurance companies get to use sex or gender in applying rates?

2) Will law enforcement and the media be allowed to use sex or will we be told in the near future that the First National Bank was robbed by a 5' 11"
'pangender' approximately 25 years old? So be on the lookout !!

3) Will college sororities and fraternities retain the right to remain biologically female or male?

4) Back to sports but on the professional level. Will the "female at birth" rules of the WNBA, LPGA and professional tennis go away completely?

5) Will prostate examinations become standard training for OB/GYNs?

You get the point. It's your brave new world so it's incumbent on you to explain to me how it's works.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

Then don't change in the same locker room at the same time if you've a problem with that? Wait five minutes, problem solved.

Separate but equal. I thought that was always a bad thing?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Since we have now learned that "sex" and "gender" are not synonymous I'd like to know:

1) At what point, if any, does the fact of two biological sexes trump the Golden Corral smorgasbord of personal gender self-identification?

I can see how this might be confusing if you insist that reality is limited to two choices only.

2) At what point, if any, does the need for businesses, private organizations and society at large to maintain rules, standards, consistency and common sense trump the personal demands of a very few being spurred on by the ideological bubble of post-modern, academia gender-theories?

Again with the binary restrictions. Acknowledging those who identify differently from their birth genders does not then mean that businesses, private organizations and society at large can no longer maintain rules, standards, consistency and common sense.

3) Who, if anyone, gets to say "No, you have a male genitalia so the answer is no."

Thanks for clarifying that you in fact do not have any empathy for these individuals.

That's really what this is about, isn't it? You think these people are wrong, and you want to be able to tell them to stop playing around and just act normal. Your entire argument is an empty appeal to tradition and the status quo.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by INDY500

5) Will prostate examinations become standard training for OB/GYNs?

I can't believe how stupid this question is.

The definition of gynaecology is medical practice dealing with the organs of the female reproductive system, being the uterus, the vagina, ovaries and fallopian tubes. The definition of obstetrics is the medical practice associated with a woman's pregnancy.

WHERE does the prostate fit in here??