Biological sex and gender identity: differences and overlaps

[LuckyNumber7]

I think the more important point exists -- why do you care what people call themselves?

[martha]

It's fricking hilarious that Indy give this much of a shit how complete strangers identify themselves on Facebook.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I think the more important point exists -- why do you care what people call themselves?

It's all a slippery slope to boys wearing dresses in INDY's mind. This, gay marriage, the lot of it. He's scared shitless that gender is going to become meaningless because we're finally recognizing a segment of our society that we cast aside for far too long.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

That's right, what sex you are attracted to is determined before birth but your actual sex is subjective and can change as often as the weather. Welcome to the brave new world.

You're absolutely right. What frightening times we live in. Rather than have these people (who you would claim to empathize with in person) out of sight and out of mind, now you might have to occasionally deal with their reality (which again, you would claim to empathize with) showing itself in yours.

It really must be tough for you.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

It's all a slippery slope to boys wearing dresses in INDY's mind. This, gay marriage, the lot of it. He's scared shitless that gender is going to become meaningless because we're finally recognizing a segment of our society that we cast aside for far too long.

I could ask the same question all day though. Why do you care if boys wear dresses?

At what point is there actually a consequence that isn't just "something I'm not used to?"

[Aygo]

Originally Posted by INDY500

That's right, what sex you are attracted to is determined before birth but your actual sex is subjective and can change as often as the weather.

No, it isn't. That's not the consensus in the cientific community and that's not what the American Psychological Association thinks. What is believed and taken as true is that sexual orientation has origin in a mix of factors: biological, psychological and social. It is believed that genetics may influence the predisposition towards one specific sexual orientation.
Plus, the sexual orientation is not a tight concept, since no one is 100% one thing or the other. Every single individual has both heterossexual and homossexual pulsions, regardless of the most dominant sexual orientation in that person, even asexual people do.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

That's right, what sex you are attracted to is determined before birth but your actual sex is subjective and can change as often as the weather. Welcome to the brave new world.

i'm starting to cringe now. you don't even understand the terms you're criticizing (sex vs. gender, just to begin).

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by INDY500

That says it all. Normal is now a pejorative in "gender theory circles." Normal is "just an identification model." Normal is not inclusive you see.

Now some of us are more than satisfied with the two biological sexes and think this all the nonsensical theories of gender studies post-grad dissertations*. An early April Fools joke. But alas, as I said, this is our future. The next civil right. The Left needs a new supply of victims to illustrate the inherent bigotry of America. The Left needs to remove the Adam and Eve notion of the sexes from the conversation.

* Which is not to say there isn't a very, very small percentage of the population that truly struggles with this and deserves empathy, counseling and reassignment surgery or hormone therapy when warranted. This can be done on a personal level however.

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by trojanchick99

Cis is a Latin prefix meaning this side of, where trans means the other side or across. Trans meaning you identify as a different gender than the sex you were born As and cis the same. So yeah it's a similar idea to cis and trans in chemistry.

I work at a university, not in academia, so I've been familiar with the terms for a while. Also, this is obviously not the correct thread to discuss sex versus gender.

Ah, that is pretty similar then indeed. As the cis configuration has both special groups on the same side of a C=C bond, and the trans has them on opposite sides.

I agree with Cobbler though, I don't really see the need to add the cis prefix.

Originally Posted by cobl04

This thread is so gay.

Got a problem with that????

[Aygo]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i'm starting to cringe now. you don't even understand the terms you're criticizing (sex vs. gender, just to begin).

"It's very simple" (Zoo TV mode): sex is more of a biological concept (although also dependant on historical/cultural/social/antropological factors and variations); gender is a social construction, dependant on the cultural meanings of a certain society or group and on the experience/living of the individual.
It's awakward for us, occidentals, but certain societies don't have or don't make gender distinction, while others (unlike ours, structured in a heteronormative and sexually binary system) are structured in multi-gender references.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

:
I agree with Cobbler though, I don't really see the need to add the cis prefix.

Me too, I can just picture some pretentious ass referring to himself as cismale just for the benefit of being asked what it means.

[LuckyNumber7]

You guys seem to think that it's automatically going to be some pretentious asshole. It's just a term coined for inclusion of transsexuality.

[Galeongirl]

Yes but it's not necessary. I'm not gonna say I'm femalefemale right? so why bother adding the cis prefix when it is exactly that?

I don't know the precise English term for it, but in Dutch we call it double word usage and it's grammatically wrong. Thus it irks me.

[LuckyNumber7]

Cis- means along with. Trans- means across from.

You guys/gals. It's just a word used to complete the set.

You wouldn't say "sexual" and "homosexual" would you?

[Galeongirl]

No, because sexual and homosexual mean different things.

cismale and male mean the exact same thing.

[LJT]

They don't...a male is just the sex you are born with, cis male is you are born as a male and identify as man....you can be a man but born as the sex, female.

I think the cis- makes it easier when you are discussing gender in relation to those who don't feel part of the regular gender binary. It's not saying your female female, but that you identify as being a woman while also being of the female sex. A woman who was born male, her gender she identifies as is as a woman, but she is obviously not cis-gendered.

It makes it easier just to identify such things especially in the literature and in discussions of such. To be honest I see no real problem with it, it's completely optional, you can identify as whatever, that's cool, it only matters really in healthcare (or at least it should).

Best thing facebook could have done would have been to leave it as a blank field you can fill in for yourself. This is only going to be used as a marketing thing anyway.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

No, because sexual and homosexual mean different things.

cismale and male mean the exact same thing.

It doesn't, though. Cisgender is a term meaning "of the gender." Transgender is a term meaning "across the gender."

Homosexual being "one sex" whereas heterosexual is "a mixture of sexes."

You're right. Sexual is a different word. So is gender. Sexual is not a sexual orientation, and gender is not a gender identity.

[bono_212]

I'm still not seeing a purpose in an individual identifying as cisgender.

I guess clinically the term makes sense... But every explanation I'm seeing still seems to indicate that it means the exact same thing thing as saying you're male, but then going a step further to say, 'I'm male and I was born male'

[jeevey]

Originally Posted by LJT

Best thing facebook could have done would have been to leave it as a blank field you can fill in for yourself. This is only going to be used as a marketing thing anyway.

Of course it's going to be used as a marketing tool, and that's a good thing (you'd think, for people who believe in a free market economy.) A good company designs their product in response to their customer base. It's not in fact the PC police tool that Indy claims, and you can tell it isn't because companies who are doing things because they have to NEVER do them as thoroughly as Facebook did this. (Just think of any other form you've ever seen with 'trans' as a choice and how cursory it was, like the BMV for instance.) What you can tell by this form is that Facebook is marketing themselves to trans people and others who are aware of gender identity issues. And that's nice, because they deserve to be manipulated by advertising just like the rest of us.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I'm still not seeing a purpose in an individual identifying as cisgender.

I guess clinically the term makes sense... But every explanation I'm seeing still seems to indicate that it means the exact same thing thing as saying you're male, but then going a step further to say, 'I'm male and I was born male'

Okay, well how about a very effeminate male who just so happens to do drag and everyone calls that person a transgender? Can you see why someone would want to identify as cismale in that case?