Bill Nye (the Science Guy): Creationism is not appropriate for children

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

none of which deserve the distinction of being called theories

/semanticspoliced

LOL You know I did have that thought as I was typing....I haven't taken any sort of life science in a long time but I remembered learning in that same high school biology class that in science, a "theory" is something that has been tested and supported by the scientific method, whereas in most contexts a "theory" is more like a fancy guess.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

There isn't any sort of "group think", as disappointing as that might be to some people.

Yep....so I get what yolland is saying. Even being taught Creationism for 21 years is not really going to draw people away from sciences as undergrad and beyond. I don't know anyone who considered going into a science that struggled because of being taught Creationism. Most people I know either didn't do sciences or dropped out of the programs because 1) it's hard 2) it wasn't their area of interest (having nothing to do with religious upbringing) or 3) they didn't find it as practical as, say, international business or accounting. The college where I work has several science-based majors that are very popular and thus difficult to get into.

[anitram]

But you guys have to remember that fairly liberal protestant denominations and Catholics are really not ones who are pushing creationism to be taught in schools nor are they typically the groups who are home schooling their kids or sending them to fundamentalist universities (in fact I think Catholics aren't even considered Christian by most of those institutions).

What Nye is talking about are the type of fundamentalists you see in documentaries like Jesus Camp, the sort that are like the Duggars with their 19 kids who actually believe that Jesus rode dinosaurs and so on. That is an entirely different group than the two of you or somebody like me who attended a Catholic school her entire life.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I really wish this wasn't a phrase. Evolution is a factual process supported by mountains of evidence.

Agreed completely on this. Just poor wording on my part/type of wording that often comes up given how this debate is always done, it seems .

I'll have to try and look for the speech cobl refers to. It sounds very interesting.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Liesje

LOL You know I did have that thought as I was typing....I haven't taken any sort of life science in a long time but I remembered learning in that same high school biology class that in science, a "theory" is something that has been tested and supported by the scientific method, whereas in most contexts a "theory" is more like a fancy guess.

Exactly, I remember going over that difference as well. So anytime I hear people get all freaked out over that word I kind of feel like I want to give them a dictionary or something.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by anitram

But you guys have to remember that fairly liberal protestant denominations and Catholics are really not ones who are pushing creationism to be taught in schools nor are they typically the groups who are home schooling their kids or sending them to fundamentalist universities (in fact I think Catholics aren't even considered Christian by most of those institutions).

What Nye is talking about are the type of fundamentalists you see in documentaries like Jesus Camp, the sort that are like the Duggars with their 19 kids who actually believe that Jesus rode dinosaurs and so on. That is an entirely different group than the two of you or somebody like me who attended a Catholic school her entire life.

No I get that, but I still think the stereotype exists (among some people) that any and all denominations are just accepting all of that at face value. Even if that's not true, it fits their narrative better.

[deep]

"theory" is something that has been tested and supported by the scientific method,

theory is walking in a direction where the light is

belief is walking in a direction regardless of where the light is

faith is walking in a direction where there is no light

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by anitram

But you guys have to remember that fairly liberal protestant denominations and Catholics are really not ones who are pushing creationism to be taught in schools nor are they typically the groups who are home schooling their kids or sending them to fundamentalist universities (in fact I think Catholics aren't even considered Christian by most of those institutions).

What Nye is talking about are the type of fundamentalists you see in documentaries like Jesus Camp, the sort that are like the Duggars with their 19 kids who actually believe that Jesus rode dinosaurs and so on. That is an entirely different group than the two of you or somebody like me who attended a Catholic school her entire life.

Right but does anyone really care other than those people? They seem pretty self-contained. I don't really see them "converting" other people en masse. Are their numbers and influence growing?

[LuckyNumber7]

What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

[deep]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

I think you meant this for me, I'll try and restate


theory requires some evidence
belief is indifferent to evidence
faith requires lack of evidence

[BEAL]

Faith is not wanting to know what is true -- Nietzsche

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by deep

I think you meant this for me, I'll try and restate

theory requires some evidence
belief is indifferent to evidence
faith requires lack of evidence

Yes, sorry about the quote fail I'm on my phone.

The way you worded it before speaks poorly for yourself. It screams "walk off a cliff because you can't see where you're going."

Anyways, is the bible not a faithful person's "evidence" though? I mean, you cite it, therefore it must be considered your evidence.

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Are their numbers and influence growing?

Well, they all have their own reality TV shows, so ...... yes?

/somewhat facetious

[deep]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Yes, sorry about the quote fail I'm on my phone.

The way you worded it before speaks poorly for yourself. It screams "walk off a cliff because you can't see where you're going."

Anyways, is the bible not a faithful person's "evidence" though? I mean, you cite it, therefore it must be considered your evidence.

I speak poorly for myself often
I believe people with faith would (could) walk off a cliff
being a skeptic, I don't recall citing the Bible, I am familiar with it I was raised in it.

[LuckyNumber7]

You've lost me. I have no idea what side you're even speaking from now.

[PhilsFan]

He fancies himself a Devil's Advocate of sorts.

[deep]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

You've lost me. I have no idea what side you're even speaking from now.

I'm on the side of writing credible statements and observations
occasionally (sometimes) I write things (I believe) that are blatantly wrong because I expect someone else to offer it as a credible argument.

I don't want anyone to be on my side, I do hope some people will respond to my arguments by supporting or disagreeing with them with some good discussion.

If we are only dividing individuals into sides and labeling them, we won't have much to discuss

also, given new information, I change sides, I have changed sides because of some good arguments I have read in here over the years.

death penalty, I was for it, then I was against it.
It will be on the Nov ballot here in CA, I am leaning to voting to keep it.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by anitram

What Nye is talking about are the type of fundamentalists you see in documentaries like Jesus Camp, the sort that are like the Duggars with their 19 kids who actually believe that Jesus rode dinosaurs and so on. That is an entirely different group than the two of you or somebody like me who attended a Catholic school her entire life.

Yeah, I mean if we're talking about the fate of specific individuals that's doubtless true. But that's a small group of people, and frankly, they're no more likely to ever show up in my classroom than they were in your BSc courses, because their parents certainly don't want some commie feminazi Jew indoctrinating them in the satanic relativist filth that typifies the humanities and social sciences, either. These people are reactionaries, and their "theology" and "scriptural exegesis" (such as they are) are geared towards resisting modernity and promoting an authoritarian social worldview. Not that I'm looking to defend or downplay, say, the fact that Lies had to study creationism alongside evolution as "science"--it's not science, therefore it has no place there, period--but I don't buy that that's a significant explanatory factor concerning the generally poor job we do of recruiting, retaining and graduating engineering, biotech, etc. students.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by yolland

Ysome commie feminazi Jew indoctrinating them in the satanic relativist filth that typifies the humanities and social sciences

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by deep

I'm on the side of writing credible statements and observations
occasionally (sometimes) I write things (I believe) that are blatantly wrong because I expect someone else to offer it as a credible argument.

I don't want anyone to be on my side, I do hope some people will respond to my arguments by supporting or disagreeing with them with some good discussion.

If we are only dividing individuals into sides and labeling them, we won't have much to discuss

also, given new information, I change sides, I have changed sides because of some good arguments I have read in here over the years.

death penalty, I was for it, then I was against it.
It will be on the Nov ballot here in CA, I am leaning to voting to keep it.

Oh. Well, in that case, I don't really have much to say. I'm not here to convince or sway anyone. Sometimes I have questions, though. Just out of curiosity.