Arizona bill 1070

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or we could just make it easier for the "illegals" to become legal. (calm down, i'm not talking about opening the door for everyone to move here, i'm talking about people already here. employed, law-abiding men and women who moved here for whatever reason.) then instead of wasting taxpayers' money stopping every dark-skinned person, we can benefit from the additional tax revenue.

that's what we have immigration judges for. when an "illegal" is picked up by the feds or whoever and sent to the judge, they use all those types of factors in determining if the person can stay or not. and i speak from personal experience, the US is probably the most generous to "illegals" already in the country compaired to most other countries :lol:. the judge says you can stay, you get a green card automatically, which IS easier than having someone that is a US citizen apply for you, which is what "non-illegal" immigrants have to go through.

sending them to an immigration judge to make a determination seems the most fair way to me, considering they did break the law in the first place.
 
whatever, i only deal with this shit day in and day out :shrug:

sorry im not for just giving people who broke the law a free ride when people who go about it legally have to have someone pay to petition for them to get a green card and wait in line, sometimes for years and years. what an asshole i am. :rolleyes:
 
or we could just make it easier for the "illegals" to become legal. (calm down, i'm not talking about opening the door for everyone to move here, i'm talking about people already here. employed, law-abiding men and women who moved here for whatever reason.) then instead of wasting taxpayers' money stopping every dark-skinned person, we can benefit from the additional tax revenue.

I think more people would be willing to accept this if they truly closed off the border. Many people simply think if we made such a move now, it would do nothing about the problem of the continued flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

I for one would support some sort of "path the citizenship" sort of effort once our border was properly secured.

This bill doesn't address that problem, but I understand why the people of Arizona feel overwhelmed. Like every state, they are having trouble of taking care of their legal residents. Toss in the ongoing cost of supporting the illegal immigrant population, it makes a bad situation almost unbearable.
 
I think more people would be willing to accept this if they truly closed off the border. Many people simply think if we made such a move now, it would do nothing about the problem of the continued flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

I for one would support some sort of "path the citizenship" sort of effort once our border was properly secured.

This bill doesn't address that problem, but I understand why the people of Arizona feel overwhelmed. Like every state, they are having trouble of taking care of their legal residents. Toss in the ongoing cost of supporting the illegal immigrant population, it makes a bad situation almost unbearable.


exactly. making it easier for "illegals" to get lpr status or citizenship and giving them free handouts without securing the border just gives immigrants the incentive to sneak across, rather than do it legally.

hmm lets see, sneak across and get a free ride, even if i get caught, or see if i can find someone to petition for me and wait in line. geeee, what will i do????????
 
hmm lets see, sneak across and get a free ride, even if i get caught, or see if i can find someone to petition for me and wait in line. geeee, what will i do????????

while by and large i disagree with you, i agree here. until recently i've been looking at moving to the united states. on one hand i could pay fee on top of fee to fill out multiple forms, go through medical tests and have my non-existant criminal record examined all to be allowed to marry an american. on the other hand, i could just rock up into the united states, get married, prove i entered the country legally, pay a one off fee and would pretty much be set up a-ok.

this arizona law is just yet another example of window dressing with no action to solve the root of the so called problem.
 
How do you propose that we secure our border?
What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.
 
What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.
when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.
 
believe it or not, i am not against people immigrating here, provided they do it legally and arent leeching off the system or causing more crime. im not really against giving someone status who has been here "illegally" for years and years who has family, works, and isnt a criminal. id much rather see us spend money on improving everyones quality of life than pissing money away in useless wars.
 
What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.

Who has suggested anything? I haven't heard one suggestion in this thread.

I'm being serious, how do you propose we secure the border? Big wall with lazers, man power, maybe a moat?

It all just seems like a waste.

My suggestion would be to establish a means for those that want to come over here and work to do so legally, one that doesn't take forever. And to streamline the process of immigrating legally...
 
My suggestion would be to establish a means for those that want to come over here and work to do so legally, one that doesn't take forever. And to streamline the process of immigrating legally...

Are you in favor of any enforcement of our border? Or are you in favor of an open border - where people may come and go as they please and take advantage of this streamlined process? Do local police and Border Patrol have any role in managing this streamlined process?
 
off the top of my head:

1. enforce the border, more agents, more walls, more motion detectors, more patrols, etc etc.
2. anyone caught crossing illegally automatically deported and banned for 5 years 1st offense, 20 years 2nd offense, 3rd offense forever.
3. easier process for legally getting status, which would make greater incentive to enter legally.
 
whatever, i only deal with this shit day in and day out :shrug:

sorry im not for just giving people who broke the law a free ride when people who go about it legally have to have someone pay to petition for them to get a green card and wait in line, sometimes for years and years. what an asshole i am. :rolleyes:
when did i call you an asshole? i just don't appreciate having words put in my mouth. i said nothing of people who've already been detained or are suspected by the government of being in the country illegally. if they've already been found then yeah of course it'd be up to the judge. i'm saying it'd be much cheaper for all parties to allow people who are already here to become citizens. they're here anyway, let them become citizens and pay taxes. nor am i saying just hand everyone a green card. they still have to show some effort. i said easier, not effortless.

easier process for legally getting status, which would make greater incentive to enter legally.
what a coincidence.
 
Are you in favor of any enforcement of our border? Or are you in favor of an open border - where people may come and go as they please and take advantage of this streamlined process? Do local police and Border Patrol have any role in managing this streamlined process?

Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls and all the hypocrisy that comes from those that support it...
 
Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls --
Is the current level of security acceptable to you? Or do you think more needs to be done? If not a wall - what would you suggest?
 
when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.

I'm not against immigration - I am against uncontrolled immigration.
 
I'm not against immigration - I am against uncontrolled immigration.
your position is already pretty clear. my response wasn't to that.

what's your solution to uncontrolled immigration then? is it letting cops ask any random person for proof they're there legally? that seems like...well, not trying to close the stable door after the horses have bolted, but certainly an analogy not far off it.
 
when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.



this is very perceptive, and the most interesting thing i've read all morning.
 
Is the current level of security acceptable to you? Or do you think more needs to be done? If not a wall - what would you suggest?

Why is it that I asked you a question and I haven't gotten an answer?

We have for the most part an arbitrary border, you'll always find holes, I suspect even with a wall. I'd be fine with more men and some motion detectors. But if you took away the incentive to cross over illegally then the problem is greatly reduced.

The problem is, people don't want to do that.
 
when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.
According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.
 
According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.



because that would be untenable, and you're taking an untenable position here for the sake of argument, one that no one is advocating.

we make it so that people want to come here. in fact, the history of the United States is marked not even so much by domestic, home-grown greatness, but by what's been achieved by people who have come here -- just off the top of my head, Einstein being a great example.

so, what i think was being expressed is that we've set ourselves up for this sort of problem, so let's have a border, let's enforce our laws, but let's also recognize how invaluable the contributions of immigrants are, the fact that they work very, very hard for little pay, that they commit crimes at a far lower rate than native-born Americans, that their energy revitalizes our neighborhoods, that they are absolutely a fundamental part of life today no matter how they got here, and let's help them become citizens.

if these were Irish immigrants we were talking about, there'd be no such bill in front of us. this is absolutely a "talk American" example of blatant racism culture clash.
 
because that would be untenable, and you're taking an untenable position here for the sake of argument, one that no one is advocating.

I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:

we've set ourselves up for this sort of problem
 
I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:



right, you're taking a point to it's furthest possible conclusion, which has no basis in reality.
 
let's hope her "papers" are in that backpack ...

dora-the-explorer.jpg
 
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