Arizona bill 1070

[bigjohn2441]

Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes

or we could just make it easier for the "illegals" to become legal. (calm down, i'm not talking about opening the door for everyone to move here, i'm talking about people already here. employed, law-abiding men and women who moved here for whatever reason.) then instead of wasting taxpayers' money stopping every dark-skinned person, we can benefit from the additional tax revenue.

that's what we have immigration judges for. when an "illegal" is picked up by the feds or whoever and sent to the judge, they use all those types of factors in determining if the person can stay or not. and i speak from personal experience, the US is probably the most generous to "illegals" already in the country compaired to most other countries . the judge says you can stay, you get a green card automatically, which IS easier than having someone that is a US citizen apply for you, which is what "non-illegal" immigrants have to go through.

sending them to an immigration judge to make a determination seems the most fair way to me, considering they did break the law in the first place.

[KhanadaRhodes]

now i remember why i don't post here much.

[bigjohn2441]

whatever, i only deal with this shit day in and day out

sorry im not for just giving people who broke the law a free ride when people who go about it legally have to have someone pay to petition for them to get a green card and wait in line, sometimes for years and years. what an asshole i am.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes

or we could just make it easier for the "illegals" to become legal. (calm down, i'm not talking about opening the door for everyone to move here, i'm talking about people already here. employed, law-abiding men and women who moved here for whatever reason.) then instead of wasting taxpayers' money stopping every dark-skinned person, we can benefit from the additional tax revenue.

I think more people would be willing to accept this if they truly closed off the border. Many people simply think if we made such a move now, it would do nothing about the problem of the continued flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

I for one would support some sort of "path the citizenship" sort of effort once our border was properly secured.

This bill doesn't address that problem, but I understand why the people of Arizona feel overwhelmed. Like every state, they are having trouble of taking care of their legal residents. Toss in the ongoing cost of supporting the illegal immigrant population, it makes a bad situation almost unbearable.

[BVS]

How do you propose that we secure our border?

[bigjohn2441]

Originally Posted by AEON

I think more people would be willing to accept this if they truly closed off the border. Many people simply think if we made such a move now, it would do nothing about the problem of the continued flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

I for one would support some sort of "path the citizenship" sort of effort once our border was properly secured.

This bill doesn't address that problem, but I understand why the people of Arizona feel overwhelmed. Like every state, they are having trouble of taking care of their legal residents. Toss in the ongoing cost of supporting the illegal immigrant population, it makes a bad situation almost unbearable.

exactly. making it easier for "illegals" to get lpr status or citizenship and giving them free handouts without securing the border just gives immigrants the incentive to sneak across, rather than do it legally.

hmm lets see, sneak across and get a free ride, even if i get caught, or see if i can find someone to petition for me and wait in line. geeee, what will i do????????

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

hmm lets see, sneak across and get a free ride, even if i get caught, or see if i can find someone to petition for me and wait in line. geeee, what will i do????????

while by and large i disagree with you, i agree here. until recently i've been looking at moving to the united states. on one hand i could pay fee on top of fee to fill out multiple forms, go through medical tests and have my non-existant criminal record examined all to be allowed to marry an american. on the other hand, i could just rock up into the united states, get married, prove i entered the country legally, pay a one off fee and would pretty much be set up a-ok.

this arizona law is just yet another example of window dressing with no action to solve the root of the so called problem.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by BVS

How do you propose that we secure our border?

What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by AEON

What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.

when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.

[bigjohn2441]

believe it or not, i am not against people immigrating here, provided they do it legally and arent leeching off the system or causing more crime. im not really against giving someone status who has been here "illegally" for years and years who has family, works, and isnt a criminal. id much rather see us spend money on improving everyones quality of life than pissing money away in useless wars.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by AEON

What do you suggest? I think we've heard from the more conservative members - but I haven't seen many suggestions from the left leaning crowd.

I understand that this issue may not be your "bogeyman" - but rule of law is an essential component of our democracy, and so is the ability to control who, when, and how many come into our nation.

Who has suggested anything? I haven't heard one suggestion in this thread.

I'm being serious, how do you propose we secure the border? Big wall with lazers, man power, maybe a moat?

It all just seems like a waste.

My suggestion would be to establish a means for those that want to come over here and work to do so legally, one that doesn't take forever. And to streamline the process of immigrating legally...

[AEON]

Originally Posted by BVS

My suggestion would be to establish a means for those that want to come over here and work to do so legally, one that doesn't take forever. And to streamline the process of immigrating legally...

Are you in favor of any enforcement of our border? Or are you in favor of an open border - where people may come and go as they please and take advantage of this streamlined process? Do local police and Border Patrol have any role in managing this streamlined process?

[bigjohn2441]

off the top of my head:

1. enforce the border, more agents, more walls, more motion detectors, more patrols, etc etc.
2. anyone caught crossing illegally automatically deported and banned for 5 years 1st offense, 20 years 2nd offense, 3rd offense forever.
3. easier process for legally getting status, which would make greater incentive to enter legally.

[KhanadaRhodes]

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

whatever, i only deal with this shit day in and day out

sorry im not for just giving people who broke the law a free ride when people who go about it legally have to have someone pay to petition for them to get a green card and wait in line, sometimes for years and years. what an asshole i am.

when did i call you an asshole? i just don't appreciate having words put in my mouth. i said nothing of people who've already been detained or are suspected by the government of being in the country illegally. if they've already been found then yeah of course it'd be up to the judge. i'm saying it'd be much cheaper for all parties to allow people who are already here to become citizens. they're here anyway, let them become citizens and pay taxes. nor am i saying just hand everyone a green card. they still have to show some effort. i said easier, not effortless.

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

easier process for legally getting status, which would make greater incentive to enter legally.

what a coincidence.

[bigjohn2441]

Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes

when did i call you an asshole? i just don't appreciate having words put in my mouth.

you didnt, i was just being a smartass

[AEON]

Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes

now i remember why i don't post here much.

Considering you are a moderator, that doesn't seem like an appropriate response to someone simply for disagreeing with you.

[coolian2]

am i the only one who can see my posts?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by AEON

Are you in favor of any enforcement of our border? Or are you in favor of an open border - where people may come and go as they please and take advantage of this streamlined process? Do local police and Border Patrol have any role in managing this streamlined process?

Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls and all the hypocrisy that comes from those that support it...

[AEON]

Originally Posted by BVS

Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls --

Is the current level of security acceptable to you? Or do you think more needs to be done? If not a wall - what would you suggest?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by coolian2

when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.

I'm not against immigration - I am against uncontrolled immigration.