deep
Blue Crack Addict
am i the only one who can see my posts?
do you really want an answer to this question?
am i the only one who can see my posts?
Phoenix Mayor: City May Sue AZ Over Immigration Law
Ben Frumin | April 26, 2010, 11:39AM
The city of Phoenix is considering suing Arizona over a controversial new immigration law signed into law on Friday.
The legislation requires law enforcement to demand immigration papers from anyone who they have a "reasonable suspicion" is in the country illegally.
Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon told the Arizona Republic that the City Council will consider an item tomorrow that would direct their city attorney "to prepare a lawsuit asking for an injunction on this law and challenging it on constitutional grounds." He also called the new law "unconstitutional" and "unenforceable."
On Fox News this morning, Gordon said the new law "doesn't make the state any safer." If anything, Gordon said, "it actually makes it less safe."
That's because police officers may be caught up in enforcing the new law, Gordon said, and, fearing lawsuits over failing to enforce the law or in unfairly enforcing it since there's no functional definition of "reasonable suspicion," may have less time to focus on violent crime and the drug trade.
Gordon also worried that the new law will create "a division within the state that could lead to violence."
The logic isn't meant to go there, the logic is meant to illustrate a problem here and to make you think about the issue more.I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:
the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.
the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.
coolian2 said:...when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard
The logic isn't meant to go there, the logic is meant to illustrate a problem here and to make you think about the issue more.
But all you're serving to do is bastardize the real point that's trying to be made here.I must politely disagree with you on the role of logic.
It's possible that I'm not understandling your conclusion clearly:
It's possible that I'm not understandling your conclusion clearly:
woahIt's all those
USA !
USA !
We're number 1
We're number 1
chants at international events, coming home to roost.
cool. you know, it actually seems like we're in agreement here.you didnt, i was just being a smartass
what international sporting events do the usa compete at?
"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."
- Pat Paulsen
and punish businesses that knowingly hire them?
There's a lot of English that don't celebrate 1066 - but what does that have to do with the current issue?Unless you are advocating the United States should allow invasion.
the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.
the problem is i'm speaking english. the number of pricks who thought i was english was downright insulting. i'd have been less upset if people thought i was australian.maybe if you'd post in ENGLISH instead of SPANISH.
This is a wonderful response BVS. I think it captures both the problem and trouble with finding a reasonable solution.I don't know the specifics on this to be honest.
I asked a friend of mine who is in law enforcement here in TX and I asked him about this subject once.
He said, no one wants to touch the subject because it's a butterfly effect. The cops don't care if they aren't doing harm because they know they've used them for labor on their ranch or in their yards at one point. Politicians don't want to do anything because they know local prices would start climbing if a mass exodus was made, or they know that some company they invest in uses illegal labor at some point. It's a dirty not so secret that here in TX a large percentage of farming uses undocumented labor, lots of smaller hotels, cooks and bus boys, a big portion of construction, and even road construction.
There's a local Republican politician that I know for a fact uses undocumented labor(or at least used to as of 5 years ago), it's one of the reasons he remains so quiet on the subject.
The dirty secret is that very few really want to do anything about it, they know there's very little pay off. But it's a great talking point, it solidifies your xenophobic base.
Reagan understood this...
This is a wonderful response BVS. I think it captures both the problem and trouble with finding a reasonable solution.
I personally think that closing the border in the most humane way possible is a first step. I think most of the US population wants to have a sense there is at least some control. In addition to that, I also favor seasonal work permits and allow this to be as hassle free as possible. I think more people would return home in the off-season if they didn’t have to worry about coming back. The only thing I would include is fingerprinting upon issuance of this permit and a file opened in a database. Being able to link a crime to a fingerprint is a critical step in the right direction for reasonable law enforcement.
Additionally, I would at least legalize marijuana, if not all drugs. It’s obvious at this point that things are worse than the prohibition era. Mexico is a big supplier of pot and a big portion of the violence we’re seeing on the border is because of this. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating the use of marijuana, but someone’s choice to use it. Regarding “harder” drugs – there simply has to be a better way of dealing with this issue. In my opinion, people using hard drugs are already punishing themselves. Perhaps take the billions we spend on enforcing drug laws and jailing offenders and spend it on educating and treatment. We have to convince people there’s a difference between legality and endorsement. In the end, this is the responsibility of parents and of course, each individual adult.
A lot of this makes sense. I'm still uneasy about "closing the border", I assume you mean to build a big wall? That doesn't sit well with me, but everything else makes sense.
OTTUMWA, Iowa (AP)— President Barack Obama on Tuesday warned of harassment against Hispanics under Arizona's tough new immigration law, saying such "poorly conceived" measures can be halted if the federal government fixes the nation's broken immigration system for good.
"Now suddenly if you don't have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to get harassed – that's something that could potentially happen," Obama said of the Arizona measure. "That's not the right way to go."