Arizona bill 1070

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

If you can't tell the difference between THESE Nazi references and people calling Obama Hitler, then you're being willfully ignorant.

Or, as is more likely the case with you in particular, stop trying to get a rise out of people. You're smarter than that - you know the difference.

I live in a college town. I know for Philly and maybe even yourself, being "carded" is part of your lexicon. And whether or not you are "carded" is based on what? Profiling, age profiling. In addition, the subjective judgement by authority figures of your sobriety is constantly being gauged.

Now citizens of Arizona who oppose this bill have every right to protest and show their displeasure. Please afford the "Teabaggers" the same right without labeling them all, well, Teabaggers or ignorant rubes, racists or Tim McVeigh wannabes.

[martha]

I'm awaiting your comments in the tea party thread.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

This bill is not about securing the border. It's about allowing cops to be racist.

Do you honestly think that is the true intention of the bill?

I'm still not clear what you're proposing as an alternative solution in securing our border.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by martha

I'm awaiting your comments in the tea party thread.

Perhaps it isn't that interesting...

[martha]

Originally Posted by AEON

I'm still not clear what you're proposing as an alternative solution in securing our border.

So stopping brown people when they're driving to work is your solution to securing our border?

[martha]

Originally Posted by AEON

Perhaps it isn't that interesting...

Nice. And exactly what I expected from you.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by martha

So stopping brown people when they're driving to work is your solution to securing our border?

What's your solution?

[bigjohn2441]

Originally Posted by martha

If this were enforced fairly...

well there's nothing really fair or unfair about it. cop stops them for something, find out they are "illegally in the country" and send them to an immigration judge, or ICE. that's the way it works (or should work). fairly black and white. leave the gray areas to the judge.

local / state police having the training in immigration law such as basic classes of admission, lengths of stay, visa & green card requirements, how to spot fraudulent documents, knowing what to do with persons "illegally in the country" when they pick them up for something else, and working with federal agencies is a good thing.

stopping someone on the street ONLY because they "look like" they are "illegally in the country" isnt.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by AEON

Do you honestly think that is the true intention of the bill?

I'm still not clear what you're proposing as an alternative solution in securing our border.

I don't know what the intention is, I'm just saying what the result is.

I don't feel the need to propose an alternate solution to securing our border because this bill does literally nothing to secure our border. All this does is deal with those who have already crossed the border. Those are two very different issues, to me.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

I live in a college town. I know for Philly and maybe even yourself, being "carded" is part of your lexicon. And whether or not you are "carded" is based on what? Profiling, age profiling. In addition, the subjective judgement by authority figures of your sobriety is constantly being gauged.

Now citizens of Arizona who oppose this bill have every right to protest and show their displeasure. Please afford the "Teabaggers" the same right without labeling them all, well, Teabaggers or ignorant rubes, racists or Tim McVeigh wannabes.

Are you really comparing carding and sobriety checks to racial profiling? That's a faulty premise, and you know it.

I don't like protesters who get out of hand on either side, for the record. I think Nazism is also brought up way, way too often (even though it at least has logical sense on one side).

[AEON]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

I don't feel the need to propose an alternate solution to securing our border because this bill does literally nothing to secure our border. All this does is deal with those who have already crossed the border. Those are two very different issues, to me.

Well, I think it is fair to suggest the first issue caused the second...

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by AEON

Do you honestly think that is the true intention of the bill?

I'm still not clear what you're proposing as an alternative solution in securing our border.

Paying "liveable" prices for coffee and other commodities to those who are producing them would be a way. You can thank Reagan for the bulk of people that are in the US illegally, while enjoying your cheap cup of coffee.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by AEON

Well, I think it is fair to suggest the first issue caused the second...

Sure. But how we deal with each issue should be very different.

[martha]

Originally Posted by AEON

What's your solution?

Illegal immigration isn't my bogeyman.

[martha]

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

well there's nothing really fair or unfair about it. cop stops them for something, find out they are "illegally in the country" and send them to an immigration judge, or ICE. that's the way it works (or should work). fairly black and white. leave the gray areas to the judge.

local / state police having the training in immigration law such as basic classes of admission, lengths of stay, visa & green card requirements, how to spot fraudulent documents, knowing what to do with persons "illegally in the country" when they pick them up for something else, and working with federal agencies is a good thing.

stopping someone on the street ONLY because they "look like" they are "illegally in the country" isnt.

If all this were actually the case, it would be something manageable.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by INDY500

I live in a college town. I know for Philly and maybe even yourself, being "carded" is part of your lexicon. And whether or not you are "carded" is based on what? Profiling, age profiling.

The difference being is that if a police officer comes up to me on the street while I'm in college and walking home from the bar, I have no legal obligation to identify myself. Most people do, because they're not aware of their rights and frankly because asserting those rights to the police will likely cause you a lot of grief. But they do not have to.

[BVS]

Tea Partiers, let me ask you again...

How does this fit into your "this was not the founding father's intent" or "fiscal responsibility" mantras?

Why do you all so unabashedly embrace hypocrisy?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by martha

Illegal immigration isn't my bogeyman.

And ignoring the problem has done wonders for your state's schools, hospitals, prisons, economy and government spending hasn't it?

Enjoy your bankruptcy.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by anitram

The difference being is that if a police officer comes up to me on the street while I'm in college and walking home from the bar, I have no legal obligation to identify myself. Most people do, because they're not aware of their rights and frankly because asserting those rights to the police will likely cause you a lot of grief. But they do not have to.

The difference is our police officers are not the Gestapo. Or the Federales for that matter.

All this law does is make what is already a federal crime a state crime.

[martha]

Originally Posted by INDY500

And ignoring the problem has done wonders for your state's schools, hospitals, prisons, economy and government spending hasn't it?

I didn't say I was ignoring it. I said it wasn't my priority.

I'm not personally responsible for my state's immigration problems. It was my great-grandfather who came to this country illegally, not me.

What's ruined my state's schools, hospitals, prisons, economy, and government (?) is the idiot governor we have, Enron (a former favorite of Republicans everywhere), and tea party-types who want to pay zero taxes and still have a cradle-to-grave care system.

Which has all been pointed out to you before. But I suppose it's easier for you to blame the gardner down the street who works 7 days a week to feed his family.