Anti-Tax Tea Parties Held Across U.S.

[Irvine511]

The Tea Party doesn't care about deficits. They only care about taxes.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

fuck the tea party and the horse they rode in on.

 

[INDY500]

10 of top 15 richest counties are in D.C. suburbs - WTOP.com

10 of top 15 richest counties are in D.C. suburbs

WASHINGTON - Ten of the 15 richest counties in the nation are in the Washington suburbs, with Loudoun and Fairfax counties in the No. 1 and No. 2 spots, according to the website Main Street, which created its list from 2010 census data.

As other areas of the nation saw huge job losses and declining property values during the recession, the D.C. suburbs maintained their stability, in part because of government, defense and technology jobs.

The new permanent ruling class.

Occupy Wall St for being clueless about who's really making out like bandits in Obama's America.

The Tea Party and the horse they rode in on for being vilified in 10 of the 15 richest counties in the country.

 

[BVS]

Defense and government jobs declined in other recessions?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I'm not sure exactly why this is necessarily a good thing that people are that rich... Maybe I'm missing your point, though.

 

[PhilsFan]

10 of top 15 richest counties are in D.C. suburbs - WTOP.com



The new permanent ruling class.

Occupy Wall St for being clueless about who's really making out like bandits in Obama's America.

The Tea Party and the horse they rode in on for being vilified in 10 of the 15 richest counties in the country.

Haven't we seen an increase in private jobs and a decrease in public jobs since Obama has been in office?

 

[INDY500]

Haven't we seen an increase in private jobs

Only in D.C. it's lawyers, lobbyists, consultants and government contractors at the teat of Leviathan.

and a decrease in public jobs since Obama has been in office?

Yes, no doubt there's plenty of retired federal employees in these counties living quite comfortably off their cushy pensions.

 

[Irvine511]

The new permanent ruling class.

oh good gosh. do you know how much government workers make? solid, good, white collar salaries.

to think that people living in Reston and working for HUD are somehow more powerful than bankers on wall street is just preposterous. believe me, there's not much mega-money here in DC. what there is, aside from one desperately poor section of the city itself, are highly educated suburbs and a work force that hasn't suffered the same effects of the recession because government has always been relatively recession proof. always has been. it's a fair employer, too. sure, there are expensive homes here, and yes, a 1-bedroom condo in the city will start at at least $450K, but there isn't the mega-money here that you have in NYC or LA (let alone London or Zurich). and it's those high 6 to low 7-figure properties that are owned by *corporate* lawyers, not run of the mill Federal employees who were grateful when Clinton offered to let them at least use Metro fare as a tax write-off. Federal employees generally can't afford to live in the fancy parts of DC, or even the good parts of Montgomery County or Arlington or Alexandria. they have to move out to Reston, Fairfax, Loudon County or even Frederick, MD where you can actually get a single family home for under a half-million.

 

[Irvine511]

Only in D.C. it's lawyers, lobbyists, consultants and government contractors at the teat of Leviathan.

yes, they're making a positively *criminal* 103K a year! which is barely middle class in *any* coastal American city. government lawyers make significantly less than the corporate lawyers in DC (or anywhere).

it's the people who actually work for the Federal Government who are doing good, honest work and making fairly typical salaries for people of their education level.

you have entirely the wrong target. focus on the Mitt Romney's of the world, not a family of four in Loudon County who face brutal 2-hour commutes on 66 so they can get to a job managing data for DHS.

Yes, no doubt there's plenty of retired federal employees in these counties living quite comfortably off their cushy pensions.

well that's class resentment and anger if i've ever heard it. why do you hate people who played by the rules and earned their retirement?

 

[BVS]

Only in D.C. it's lawyers, lobbyists, consultants and government contractors at the teat of Leviathan.



Yes, no doubt there's plenty of retired federal employees in these counties living quite comfortably off their cushy pensions.

Your facts are wrong, your understanding is wrong, and...

Shit, nevermind.

Just continue to repeat and rinse.

 

[INDY500]

not a family of four in Loudon County who face brutal 2-hour commutes on 66 so they can get to a job managing data for DHS. so they don't have live with violent crime, drugs, vagrants, apathetic schools or Marion Barry.

That reads better.

well that's class resentment and anger if i've ever heard it. why do you hate people who played by the rules and earned their retirement?

Pension gap divides public and private workers - USATODAY.com

Retired government workers are twice as likely to get a pension as their counterparts in the private sector, and the typical benefit is far more generous. The nation's 6 million retired civil servants — teachers, police, administrators, laborers — received a median benefit of $17,640 in 2005, according to the Congressional Research Service. Eleven million private-sector retirees covered by traditional pensions got $7,692.

And this is a 2007 story; the gap has grown after the recession. Both state and federal. And oh by the way, the taxpayers are on the hook for the vastly over-promised and under-funded public pension plans and WE'RE BROKE.

 

[Irvine511]

That reads better.

you forgot the same-sex marriage.

but, dude. seriously. are you going to presume to tell me about the city i lived in for 4 years (in a "transitional" neighborhood) and can see out my window? do you know *why* DC has problems like you mentioned? and do you know that that's *why* families living on government salaries can't afford housing in safer areas nor can they afford Montgomery County, Arlington or Alexandria? do you really think there are retirees in Montgomery County living high on the hog with their whopping $17k a year in pensions?

And this is a 2007 story; the gap has grown after the recession. Both state and federal. And oh by the way, the taxpayers are on the hook for the vastly over-promised and under-funded public pension plans and WE'RE BROKE.

while i can agree that pension reform is part of any serious conversation about debt reduction, just look at the numbers you pulled out. $17K. first, think about how much less in take home salary a government worker made over the course of a working career because they trade in the promise of higher profits for the stability and benefits that government -- because it is not profit-seeking -- uses in order to attract talented workers. i don't get why you go after people who are your peers, but i suppose that's what the actual plutocracy wants? to think that people who are like you are your enemy and they are the ones who've prevented you from being like them?

Mitt Romney makes $17k in the time it takes him to take a whiz.

and you've provided a great example as to why social security should never, ever be privatized.

 

[anitram]

Only in D.C. it's lawyers at the teat of Leviathan.

Your government lawyers seriously make that much cash???

 

[Irvine511]

they generally make low 6-figures.

compare that to a $150k starting fresh-out-of-Cornell salary at any of the corporate firms in DC.

 

[anitram]

160K+bonus in NYC (misread the DC part).

 

[Irvine511]

makes sense, Manhattan is a bit more expensive.

but those are good, honorable lawyers working hard to help billion-dollar corporations not pay any taxes. they're not sucking at my very own teat like those loathsome government lawyers.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

10 of top 15 richest counties are in D.C. suburbs - WTOP.com

The new permanent ruling class.

Occupy Wall St for being clueless about who's really making out like bandits in Obama's America.

The Tea Party and the horse they rode in on for being vilified in 10 of the 15 richest counties in the country.

As a working class schlub who lives a block from Madonna, four blocks from Mike Bloomberg, and down the hall from a plumber... that new york county, aka Manhattan, isn't on that list is absolutely meaningless. Yes, we have Wall Street. We also have Washington Heights. Kinda skews the numbers a tad.

20% of Manhattan lives below the poverty line. That's about 200,000 people. Roughly the size of Arlington, Virginia.

Meanwhile the per capita income of zip code 10021 on the upper east side, about 150,000 people, is over $90,000.

So yea... I don't really like the protesters because I didn't see an end game or any sort of organization towards a goal... and pretty much accomplished not much more than making me late for work a few times.

But as far as simply protesting wealth and wealth inequality? Yea... they picked the right place.

 

[INDY500]

but those are good, honorable lawyers working hard to help billion-dollar corporations not pay any taxes. they're not sucking at my very own teat like those loathsome government lawyers.

Yes, well who writes the loophole-laden tax codes that require corporations to hire armies of tax lawyers?

 

[anitram]

You do realize that tax groups are very, very small, right? There are no armies of tax lawyers, but don't take my word for it.

 

[maycocksean]

So if I follow you, Big Government creates these loopholes precicesly so the corporations will have to hire armies of lawyers. . .

The noble corporations would NEVER lobby for these selfsame loopholes in the first place, would they.

No,of course not.

 

[Irvine511]

i don't think that all of INDY's criticisms are wrong, per se. i think a vastly simplified tax code and pension reform are two important steps to take.

i just think he's aiming at the wrong targets. your average government worker is hardly your enemy.

 

[BVS]

i don't think that all of INDY's criticisms are wrong, per se. i think a vastly simplified tax code and pension reform are two important steps to take.

i just think he's aiming at the wrong targets. your average government worker is hardly your enemy.

Not only that but his own tea party proudly signed an oath and fought not to change those tax loop holes.

 

[INDY500]

So if I follow you, Big Government creates these loopholes precicesly so the corporations will have to hire armies of lawyers. . .

The noble corporations would NEVER lobby for these selfsame loopholes in the first place, would they.

No,of course not.

I mentioned the army of corporate lobbyists at the teat of government a few posts back. It's fine to be sarcastic with me but do try and keep up.

 

[INDY500]

i think a vastly simplified tax code and pension reform are two important steps to take.

I'm going to end the evening in full agreement and on a positive note.

 

[U2DMfan]

Yes, well who writes the loophole-laden tax codes that require corporations to hire armies of tax lawyers?

The people that need those loopholes.
The 'special' people, interested in it.

Whatever they pay armies of tax lawyers, they save more in those same loopholes. Cost effective. Common sense business practice.

So to specifically answer your question, it is the special interests that hire lawyers to craft legislation that is then incorporated by the politicians.

Look at the Health Care Reform bill for a perfect illustration.
Who wrote it? Republicans? Democrats? Uh, no. The Health insurance lobby wrote it - that's why it was done behind closed doors.
They said "we can digest this...and we won't fight it and we won't fight against your re-elections" and that's why it included the mandate that nobody outside of the insurance companies really wanted. It was a compromised dogshit bill and even Obama knew it.

So yeah, about having to hire "armies" of lawyers to deal with tax codes...why would they do that? Because it is to their advantage.
See: General Electric.

Why were those tax codes so advantageous to GE and not average tax payers? Because they are in bed with the same people making those loop holes and then working to effectuate them.

THIS is the problem with the whole U.S. government.
The system is already bought and paid for.

 

[BVS]

Corporations are people too... am I right?

 

[U2DMfan]

They are, by far, the most powerful 'people' in the United States.
Far more powerful than the measly President.
In fact you could say that they are our representative Government.

Look...I'm a free market capitalist. I truly am.
But we have to be reasonable on all fronts.
Our Government is not a true representative democracy.

And until people stop believing the partisan rhetoric (from either side) designed to keep the status quo, nothing can progress towards real change.

Capitalism isn't evil but corporatism is reality.
We need regulations and a free market.
And a government once again accountable to the people.
And by "people" I don't mean corporations.

 

[INDY500]

The people that need those loopholes.
The 'special' people, interested in it.

Whatever they pay armies of tax lawyers, they save more in those same loopholes. Cost effective. Common sense business practice.

So to specifically answer your question, it is the special interests that hire lawyers to craft legislation that is then incorporated by the politicians.

Look at the Health Care Reform bill for a perfect illustration.
Who wrote it? Republicans? Democrats? Uh, no. The Health insurance lobby wrote it - that's why it was done behind closed doors.
They said "we can digest this...and we won't fight it and we won't fight against your re-elections" and that's why it included the mandate that nobody outside of the insurance companies really wanted. It was a compromised dogshit bill and even Obama knew it.

So yeah, about having to hire "armies" of lawyers to deal with tax codes...why would they do that? Because it is to their advantage.
See: General Electric.

Why were those tax codes so advantageous to GE and not average tax payers? Because they are in bed with the same people making those loop holes and then working to effectuate them.

THIS is the problem with the whole U.S. government.
The system is already bought and paid for.

Crony capitalism 101. Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty and I agree, it has to be changed. Uniform tax codes, and lessening the governments' involvement in the economy is the only way to get corporations competing in the marketplace, rather than K street, with their dollars. the only way to slow down the building of McMansions around Washington, D.C.

The exact opposite direction this administration is taking us.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

They are, by far, the most powerful 'people' in the United States.
Far more powerful than the measly President.
In fact you could say that they are our representative Government.

Look...I'm a free market capitalist. I truly am.
But we have to be reasonable on all fronts.
Our Government is not a true representative democracy.

And until people stop believing the partisan rhetoric (from either side) designed to keep the status quo, nothing can progress towards real change.

Capitalism isn't evil but corporatism is reality.
We need regulations and a free market.
And a government once again accountable to the people.
And by "people" I don't mean corporations.

Is there anything we can do to try and get the last part of your post to be a reality? Or is it a losing battle at this point?

 

[maycocksean]

I mentioned the army of corporate lobbyists at the teat of government a few posts back. It's fine to be sarcastic with me but do try and keep up.

I'm well aware of your teats post, thank you.



My point is that you want it all to be the fault of Big Government, whereas I put more of the onus on Big Business. Big Business CREATES the teat and then sucks on it.

U2DMFan said it much better than I could:

The people that need those loopholes.
The 'special' people, interested in it.

Whatever they pay armies of tax lawyers, they save more in those same loopholes. Cost effective. Common sense business practice.

So to specifically answer your question, it is the special interests that hire lawyers to craft legislation that is then incorporated by the politicians.

Look at the Health Care Reform bill for a perfect illustration.
Who wrote it? Republicans? Democrats? Uh, no. The Health insurance lobby wrote it - that's why it was done behind closed doors.
They said "we can digest this...and we won't fight it and we won't fight against your re-elections" and that's why it included the mandate that nobody outside of the insurance companies really wanted. It was a compromised dogshit bill and even Obama knew it.

So yeah, about having to hire "armies" of lawyers to deal with tax codes...why would they do that? Because it is to their advantage.
See: General Electric.

Why were those tax codes so advantageous to GE and not average tax payers? Because they are in bed with the same people making those loop holes and then working to effectuate them.

THIS is the problem with the whole U.S. government.
The system is already bought and paid for.

Crony capitalism 101. Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty and I agree, it has to be changed. Uniform tax codes, and lessening the governments' involvement in the economy is the only way to get corporations competing in the marketplace, rather than K street, with their dollars. the only way to slow down the building of McMansions around Washington, D.C.

The exact opposite direction this administration is taking us.

I think we're essentially on the same page. It's just obscured by a rather one-sided summation of "where the problem lies" on your part. I'm not about to believe that a President Romney or President Santorum (or a President Daniels) for that matter would go any different direction than Obama has. They're already in bed with the corporations, and they haven't even been elected yet.