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Old 07-14-2010, 01:40 PM   #341
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Not speaking as a Bush supporter -- I'm just not sure what the balance is here. Plenty of people on this board accused Bush of fascism when he was in power. Obama's presence naturally is going to draw the same kind of heat from the other side of the aisle.

It seems like whoever is in power -- regardless of race or ideology -- is going to piss off their opponents. Not sure what role race plays.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:06 PM   #342
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Not speaking as a Bush supporter -- I'm just not sure what the balance is here. Plenty of people on this board accused Bush of fascism when he was in power. Obama's presence naturally is going to draw the same kind of heat from the other side of the aisle.

It seems like whoever is in power -- regardless of race or ideology -- is going to piss off their opponents. Not sure what role race plays.
How many of these were based on or referenced Bush's race?

His alleged religion?

Or compare his policy to that of Hitler's?
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:13 PM   #343
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How many of these were based on or referenced Bush's race?

His alleged religion?

Or compare his policy to that of Hitler's?
Having been at more than a few ANSWER protests, I can say with dead-on certainty that phrases like "Christofascism" were tossed around like beach balls. And you couldn't swing a dead cat without hearing charges of fascism and references to the Right as a form of Nazism. Funny, I seem to remember some threads about that in FYM back in the day. Plenty of comments about Bush's southern heritage too.

Again, whoever's in power -- left, right, or center -- is going to get it from whoever isn't.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:21 PM   #344
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Having been at more than a few ANSWER protests, I can say with dead-on certainty that phrases like "Christofascism" were tossed around like beach balls. And you couldn't swing a dead cat without hearing charges of fascism and references to the Right as a form of Nazism. Funny, I seem to remember some threads about that in FYM back in the day. Plenty of comments about Bush's southern heritage too.

Again, whoever's in power -- left, right, or center -- is going to get it from whoever isn't.
Yes, about his war, not his prescription drug policy.

BIG difference!
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:05 PM   #345
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Not speaking as a Bush supporter -- I'm just not sure what the balance is here. Plenty of people on this board accused Bush of fascism when he was in power. Obama's presence naturally is going to draw the same kind of heat from the other side of the aisle.

It seems like whoever is in power -- regardless of race or ideology -- is going to piss off their opponents. Not sure what role race plays.


but Bush is a war criminal. i mean, he is. he's admitted as such. he says he'd do it again.

he authorized torture. these signs are typical agitprop, but they're far more credible than Obama = Stalin, or Obama the "lyin' African."

you can equivocate as far as both sides wave anti-intellectual signs, but they are not equivalent in content. to pretend that "they're all the same" is not to think very hard or read very closely.

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Having been at more than a few ANSWER protests, I can say with dead-on certainty that phrases like "Christofascism" were tossed around like beach balls.
oh, but that's totally fair. i used that in here. Bush gave James Dobson veto power over SCOTUS nominees. the Christian Right was far, far more influential then than they are now, particularly in Bush's first term. he talked frequently about listening to a "higher father" and being a born-again and you had Ashcroft covering up breasts on statues and the demonizing of gay people and the very active courting of conservative evangelical protestants. the man said his favorite political philosopher was Jesus, for chrissakes.


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And you couldn't swing a dead cat without hearing charges of fascism and references to the Right as a form of Nazism. Funny, I seem to remember some threads about that in FYM back in the day. Plenty of comments about Bush's southern heritage too.
Bush doesn't have southern heritage. he's a blue-blood yankee who moved to West Texas -- hardly the south. he's not like George Allen, trying to reclaim an idealized antebellum past that never existed. so, no, there wasn't anything about Bush's "southern" past. you very well could make the argument that the base of the Republican Party is in the South, and that it's the party of Dixie, and you could look at voting returns from the 2008 election and be absolutely correct. it was only in certain areas of the south where McCain beat Obama greater than Bush did Kerry. we'd be fooling ourselves if race weren't a part of that.

the Hitler/Nazi comparisons have always been wrong, and those have always been called out in here by the regular protesters. the only difference, i can see, is that the Hitler comparisons to Bush were made in regards to foreign policy (invading nations for fabricated reasons), rather than domestic policy (health care).





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Again, whoever's in power -- left, right, or center -- is going to get it from whoever isn't.

and you can pretend it's all the same and feel as if you're above it all, but that's really not the case.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:10 PM   #346
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:05 PM   #347
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The NAACP as a racist organisation
It's been nothing but a political arm of the Democratic Party for decades.

NAACP: Racist to blacks � C.A.R.D

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In another vein, Mfume and other black liberals blame members of their own race for failing to toe the liberal/socialist line. For some predetermined reason, liberals insist that all blacks believe in a single set of values and ideals and there can be no dissent or difference of opinion.

That’s inherently racist — and it’s as racist as if a white were making the same claims.
And if you doubt that here is a Jesse Jackson quote from last year:
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“You can't vote against healthcare and call yourself a black man”
It's racism of the Uncle Tom variety and its a shame it's still condoned in 2010.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:35 PM   #348
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It's been nothing but a political arm of the Democratic Party for decades.

NAACP: Racist to blacks � C.A.R.D



And if you doubt that here is a Jesse Jackson quote from last year:

It's racism of the Uncle Tom variety and its a shame it's still condoned in 2010.
It's unsavory term, yes, and not one I'd be likely to use, but what it means is not without merit. Do you know what a so-called "Uncle Tom" is?

I'm sure Mfume would agree that any African-American is entitled to his or her opinion. He is also entitled to think that opinion is stupid and self-hating.

From the article:
" As far as Mfume and the rest of the NAACP leadership is concerned, any display of a Confederate flag is inherently racist."



Um, YEAH. I'm sorry, but any display of the Confederate flag that is intended to honor and show respect to the Confederacy IS inherently racist. Period. End of story. Granted, there may be whites who don't understand that and thus display the flag without any racist intent, but that is ignorance. They don't understand what the flag means to most black people. The flag belongs in a museum. The Confederacy should not be lauded, honored, respected at all. It stood for Americans being willing to fight and die to for their states' right to enslave other human beings. It is a shame. Not only that but it has continued to be used by racist groups such as the KKK that desire to keep black people down.

To be honest, every time I see that flag on a car or in front of a house, it makes me feel just a little nervous.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:57 AM   #349
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Unfortunately I think INDY, Iron Horse, and others will never be able to understand this, and will continue to not see racism unless it come from someone wearing a hood, or unless it's pointed at their own race.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:04 PM   #350
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Um, YEAH. I'm sorry, but any display of the Confederate flag that is intended to honor and show respect to the Confederacy IS inherently racist.
From the friends I have in the south -- some of whom wear their racism on their sleeve, some of whom are more latent about it (you know, like us northerners) -- I gather that part of the perspective on the Confederate flag has to do with a spiteful sense of shame. The whole "the south will rise again" attitude, in the same way that NH's state motto is "don't tread on me", and perhaps in the same way that other marginalized or put-upon groups have taken words that are epithets -- "nigger," "queer" -- and turned them into terms of empowerment.

At the same time, I'll be honest -- when I see someone with a Confederate bumper sticker (all two of them in L.A., usually driving somewhere else), I automatically make assumptions about their perspective on race, gun control, etc. And that assumption may be true. On the other hand, I've met some remarkably enlightened Southerners. So does making the wrong assumption automatically invalidate that assumption? Is my assumption someone else's problem? Is perceived racism the same as actual racism?

I guarantee we're thinking about this more than the tea baggers, which may say something.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:21 PM   #351
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From the friends I have in the south -- some of whom wear their racism on their sleeve, some of whom are more latent about it (you know, like us northerners) -- I gather that part of the perspective on the Confederate flag has to do with a spiteful sense of shame. The whole "the south will rise again" attitude, in the same way that NH's state motto is "don't tread on me", and perhaps in the same way that other marginalized or put-upon groups have taken words that are epithets -- "nigger," "queer" -- and turned them into terms of empowerment.

At the same time, I'll be honest -- when I see someone with a Confederate bumper sticker (all two of them in L.A., usually driving somewhere else), I automatically make assumptions about their perspective on race, gun control, etc. And that assumption may be true. On the other hand, I've met some remarkably enlightened Southerners. So does making the wrong assumption automatically invalidate that assumption? Is my assumption someone else's problem? Is perceived racism the same as actual racism?

I guarantee we're thinking about this more than the tea baggers, which may say something.
I hear you. I mean I knew some decent people when I was a kid living in the south had Confederate flags on their cars etc. They didn't mean any harm, per se. They just didn't realize the symbolism. It would be like some young Germans sporting the Nazi flag to show their "German pride" without fully understanding the implications. I see the two--Confederate and Nazi flag--as equivalent.

The thing about terms like "nigger" and "queer" is that they were and are deraugetory terms. The Confederate flag wasn't originally deraugetory, but was a symbol of national pride and patriotism (for the Confederacy).
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:39 PM   #352
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I hear you. I mean I knew some decent people when I was a kid living in the south had Confederate flags on their cars etc. They didn't mean any harm, per se. They just didn't realize the symbolism.
True.

I think the real question here -- the white elephant, the one we're all dancing around -- is, what do we do about the fact that the Dukes of Hazzard's car is plastered with the Confederate Flag (and called the General Lee)?

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The Confederate flag wasn't originally deraugetory, but was a symbol of national pride and patriotism (for the Confederacy).
I've never seen "derogatory" spelled quite that way before. (Did you attend the Benji Schul for Peepul Who Spel Gud? 'Cause I'm currently enrolled in his Punct'iuatshun.,*Clas.)
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:51 PM   #353
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The thing about terms like "nigger" and "queer" is that they were and are deraugetory terms.
I think we can add "tea bagger" to that list.

I've never been to a rally, never received any info in the mail or given a dime to any organization, but I'll gladly be a "tea bagger" this fall voting only for candidates that promise to restore fiscal responsibility, repeal Obamacare and require that each new bill identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the authority to pass said law.

I know, bigoted isn't it?
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:59 PM   #354
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I think we can add "tea bagger" to that list.


can you point to the history of discriminatory legislation and violence that have plagued the Tea Party members? can you point to their immutable differences from the majority that make them a target for such violence and discrimination?
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:01 PM   #355
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I think we can add "tea bagger" to that list.
Were you born a tea bagger?
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:05 PM   #356
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i agree, "tea bagger" is a derogatory term. but i think these people are wrong and misinformed and i'm free to tell them this and given their incohate list of grievances, i don't feel particularly bad calling them such names. they've voluntarily aligned themselves via thought, choice, and decisions to a specific ideology.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:05 PM   #357
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can you point to the history of discriminatory legislation and violence that have plagued the Tea Party members? can you point to their immutable differences from the majority that make them a target for such violence and discrimination?
We've already discussed that. That's not the point.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:07 PM   #358
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We've already discussed that. That's not the point.


of course it's the point. no one ever says, "hey, tea bagger ..." and then hits you in the face with a baseball bat. some words are different than others, and some words carry more weight than others.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:13 PM   #359
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they've voluntarily aligned themselves via thought, choice, and decisions to a specific ideology.
As have American Progressives.

Face it, we have two diametrically opposed visions of what America's future at home and abroad should look like. Fine, let's just have that debate without the race card thrown in at every turn.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:33 PM   #360
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As have American Progressives.

Face it, we have two diametrically opposed visions of what America's future at home and abroad should look like. Fine, let's just have that debate without the race card thrown in at every turn.
We've been begging that of you all from the beginning of this movement.

But let's face it, we have two diametrically opposed views as to what racism is.

We've showed you the signs, we've showed you the quotes, and with a straight face you type out with all sincerity that you can't see it.

How do you show a blind man?
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