Another Malaysian Airline Disaster?

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Journalists seem to be falling for Strelkov's supposed threatening posts on social media, it's a fake account. This is the 'official' page.
 
Journalists will fall for anything these days, it's sad. We live in such a day and age where news can travel instantly, and everyone wants to be first.

It's highly irresponsible and can be dangerous.
 
As someone who flies Malaysian a lot (I get staff benefits through QANTAS and as a One World carrier we have reciprocal rights) I can say they are one of the most professional and safety conscious carriers out there.

I was woken early this morning with the news that a number of QANTAS staff were booked to fly home to Melbourne and Brisbane from Amsterdam with KL being the stop over point (MH17 was scheduled to refuel in KL and continue onto Melbourne under another flight number - same plane). In a twist of fate due to the overbooking of MH17 it appears all of them went through customs, checked bags and were at the gate waiting to board when told they would not be able to fly due to overbooking (before anyone says anything their bags were not on board at that point - staff bags go on last these days for this exact reason - saves time taking them off if the staff do not get on).

They were re-accomodated on the Cathay Pacific Amsterdam to HKIA flght instead and some on the later KLM flight (who have codeshare agreements with Malaysian even though they are not One World) with connections back to Australia tonight on QANTAS. I've been told as soon as they stepped off the flights at HKIA they were taken into rooms and told what has happened by locally based QANTAS and Malaysian staff (their flights left Amsterdam before or just as the crash happened and for obvious reasons no mention was made mid-flight).

Needless to say I am relieved as two of the Melbourne ladies are quite good frends of mine and there had been no official word they weren't on MH17 as planned.

Sadly many have lost their lives - in completely barbaric conditions. It has been one helll of a morning but please do not blame Malaysian for this. They are having a horror year and are a really good, quality airline.

I really can't add much more as we are being briefed with dribs and drabs of info at this end.
 
Malaysian Airlines are just about the last entity to blame in this, unfortunately if the Spanish ATC at the Boryspil airport in Kiev is to be believed (and judging by his tweets he does come off as legitimate) then this is something Malaysian Airlines may not have had a say in.

Also: again I'll preface this, you can take this with a grain of salt if you like, a Russian twitter account (a blogging platform of some sort) posted this tweet on the 13th.

BsxASgsIAAApjck.jpg


It talks about some "info"/rumour, that "Kolomoiskiy is planning to have a surprise for Poroshenko. As per info: Something with planes." Very creepy in any case, Kolomoiskiy is one of, if not the most influential oligarch in Ukraine.
 
If that's true, then I'd have to really to reconsider my earlier judgment that MA were the least deserving of the blame. That's bad, that's bloody reckless and in no way a good idea no matter the situation. That would explain a lot about why the flight path was changed so drastically, at least.

There's still a lot to find out about the reports of Ukrainian fighter jets following/'chasing' the plane up until the plane disappeared off the radar though.
 
The plane was reportedly 10km above the ground, from what I understand the rebels only have weapons/equipment that can reach up to 3km.

AP journalists reported seeing Buk launchers (of the variety that can shoot down planes flying at 72,000 feet, twice the altitude of this plane) behind rebel lines a day before the attack.
 
Yeah, I heard about that, a Guardian journalist asked the rebels about those launchers and they responded that they were under repair at the time that the plane was struck down.
 
What about this? As always I don't know enough about the situation, but this is pretty damning of MA.

MH17: Malaysia Airlines responsible for Ukraine plane crash | Crikey

Obviously the outrage should be directed at the people who shot the fucking thing down, but if MA changed the flight route to go over a warzone to save fuel...

If that's true, then I'd have to really to reconsider my earlier judgment that MA were the least deserving of the blame. That's bad, that's bloody reckless and in no way a good idea no matter the situation. That would explain a lot about why the flight path was changed so drastically, at least.

Given it was the European air traffic control who declared the flight path safe, can we really blame Malaysian Airlines for using it?
 
The Ukrainian Prosecutor General now admits that the rebels DO NOT have the necessary missile systems (Buk or S-300) in operation to shoot down the plane.
 
Given it was the European air traffic control who declared the flight path safe, can we really blame Malaysian Airlines for using it?


At the end of the day we can just keep making a chain-of-fault.

It was MAs fault because they didn't use caution. It was ATCs fault for allowing such air space to be flown through. Administration's fault for giving the zone clearance for ATC. Then we can start picking at individuals.

Honestly it all leads back to one bit... despite who did right and who could've done better, there's currently some group of fuckheads out there, may they be Russisn, Ukranian, or some form of rebel or terrorist group. They did it. They are responsible. This isn't 370, this isn't just a tragedy. This is also an act of savagery. Some accountability might be placed on some people here and there, but I think it's so wrong at this point to really try and point fingers at a time when everyone should be focused on the real enemy.
 
One thing I always notice about myself when these things happen is that I consume, consume, consume. I've been tuned into our 24-hr news channel all day, even though much of it has been very repetitious.
 
Whoever did it, there's only going to be one outcome. Russia will be blamed, Russia will get sanctions, having blame placed on Russia (regardless of whether they did or didn't) will be a positive for both the Ukrainian government and the other powers that be. I sincerely doubt that Poroshenko will receive any sort of blame, he is almost guaranteed to get what he wants.

The 'official' conclusion is already obvious.
 
The Ukrainian Prosecutor General now admits that the rebels DO NOT have the necessary missile systems (Buk or S-300) in operation to shoot down the plane.

Officially no, but there has been a Russian report from June 29 that the rebels stole a BUK1 system from Ukrainian forces.... then again that could've been a cover up for the Russians supplying it. There's really no telling..

I should probably try to avoid the news but I can't help but looking. Even though we know pretty much nearly for certain our coworker was on that plane, still no official names list.
 
Officially no, but there has been a Russian report from June 29 that the rebels stole a BUK1 system from Ukrainian forces.... then again that could've been a cover up for the Russians supplying it. There's really no telling..

Yeah, that's why I felt a bit confused with that admission. And yeah, as mentioned earlier, the rebels have said that the BUK (I feel so weird having to type that because of the user) system they had in their possession was non operational and that it had to be repaired. I'm not surprised if it turned out the rebels managed to steal it, they've managed to steal numerous vehicles from the army, and Ukraine has about 21 BUK systems of their own.
 
Tony Abbott's kneejerk reaction is making the Australian government look rash and moronic right now, levelling very severe claims against Russia and Putin in particular before any solid evidence has been disclosed. While I think Russian rebels mistaking MH17 for a Ukrainian military plane seems to be the most plausible current theory, suggesting this is somehow Putin's direct fault at this early stage is not what a Prime Minister should be doing. If his claims are borne out, he still looks rash, tactless, and undiplomatic, using the incident for pointscoring and sabre-rattling, If his claims aren't, well, there'll be a diplomatic incident.

Of course, the Abbott administration is very good at pissing off other governments - just ask China and Indonesia - so this behaviour doesn't surprise me.
 
Here's a link to the prosecutor's general claim that the rebels did not have BUK.

Tony Abbott's kneejerk reaction is making the Australian government look rash and moronic right now, levelling very severe claims against Russia and Putin in particular before any solid evidence has been disclosed. While I think Russian rebels mistaking MH17 for a Ukrainian military plane seems to be the most plausible current theory, suggesting this is somehow Putin's direct fault at this early stage is not what a Prime Minister should be doing. If his claims are borne out, he still looks rash, tactless, and undiplomatic, using the incident for pointscoring and sabre-rattling, If his claims aren't, well, there'll be a diplomatic incident.

Of course, the Abbott administration is very good at pissing off other governments - just ask China and Indonesia - so this behaviour doesn't surprise me.

He has absolutely no idea, he tries to speak with the authority that a larger Western power would do so with, but he comes off as clumsy and pathetic. Not even Obama had gone as far as to immediately condemn Russia as he normally would.
 
All it says is that 'BUK complex has been taken under control by DNR.'
 
Top headline on one of the main TV networks in Melbourne: "Flight scheduled to connect with doomed MH17 about to land in Melbourne tonight."

Really? Really?! There is so much to report here, and an almost irrelevant detail gets top billing? Good god the lengths some media outlets go to seize on every local link to a disaster can be nauseating.
 
I think one of the 'intercepted recordings' of the rebels talking smells like a fake, at the very least there's reason to be suspicious.

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In reference to what the Ukrainian Prosecutor General said earlier, it turns out that the BUK system that had been taken (the army had left it behind) by the rebels in late June was broken, I assume it implies that they couldn't have used it to shoot the plane down.
 
MH17 had flown over that general route daily, except usually it is about 200 miles or so from where it was Thursday. According to reports, the pilots deviated from the normal flight path to fly a little more northeastern than usual because of thunderstorms. This is such a random act of savagery that I can't quite comprehend.
 
Father of someone who saw how the plane got struck (don't know what's up with the embed here).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rPcbFJSGk7E

Narrator: Who shot it down? Today it was shot down, on [July] 17th.
Narrator: The village of Grabovo. How was it? What did you son tell you?
Father of Eyewitness: Well, they were sitting there, on a hill. And, from behind the clouds … two airplanes were flying … one of the came out from behind the clouds.
Narrator: Military planes emerged?
Father of Eyewitness: Well, he does not understand. Then, with one shot, they shot down the second. And that’s it. The second plane, he says – with one shot. There was one shot and that’s it.
Narrator: And the one that was shot down was the civilian one? …
Father of Eyewitness: And two … one fell down, he says, and the second too … I did not bring my phone here, so I can’t call him.
[in the background] Ah, he saw a jet fighter … Of course …
Narrator: The village of Grabovo, in the Shakhtersk district. One the approaches to Grabovo, it fell. Keep looking for remains. Everything is burning. Aluminum has melted. All the casing.

Also, an Australian woman lost a brother on MH370 and now lost her stepdaughter on MH17.

Unbelievable. Incomprehensible.


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:(
 
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