An FYM Poll

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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Did Jesus physically ascend to heaven?

  • Yes he did

    Votes: 20 31.7%
  • No he didn't, it is a pointless fabrication

    Votes: 21 33.3%
  • No, it is figurative

    Votes: 22 34.9%

  • Total voters
    63
A_W, what exactly was this poll intended to measure? Just curious.
I have a bet going about what proportion of people actually believe in the claims of their religion, most people I know are secular - they may be Catholics or Jews and may well believe in God but they don't believe in miracles.

My contention is that if you scratch the surface people are more rational than they might otherwise seem (for instance if America was 90% Christian but only 30% of people believe in a physical ascension then it gives a vague idea about what sort of faith they subscribe to).

Obviously it could have been worded differently, I am not sure that would be a good thing though.
 
Wanderer, suppose you're mistaken-who will you look for in the next life?

me
comegen
Christ
Confucius

??

<>
 
We can individually be 100% convinced we are right though. Essentially making the certainty factor a personal one.
That is bad thinking, what we believe has nothing to do with the truth of these types of claims. Since we can't be absolutely certain we can't ever be 100%. Having a high confidence level that a claim is untrue is not certainty.

I can't prove a negative, but the burden of proof isn't on me, it rests on the people making the claims.
 
Wanderer, suppose you're mistaken-who will you look for in the next life?

me
comegen
Christ
Confucius

??

<>
That depends on which religion is true, they aren't exactly mutually compatible, though if there was an afterlife and no God I would be more right than most.
 
That is bad thinking, what we believe has nothing to do with the truth of these types of claims. Since we can't be absolutely certain we can't ever be 100%. Having a high confidence level that a claim is untrue is not certainty.

Well, I am 100% certain that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, obviously barring any major astronomical anomalies which may happen overnight.

Maybe it's the "common sense certainty" or something, but that's us Engineers for you, we're always rounding !
 
Well, I am 100% certain that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, obviously barring any major astronomical anomalies which may happen overnight.

Maybe it's the "common sense certainty" or something, but that's us Engineers for you, we're always rounding !
I'm not, I can think of several reasons why.
- The Earth experiences a magnetic reversal which switches the north and south magnetic pole making the sun rise in the West tomorrow, it happens with periodicity and we are about due for one now.
- Astronomical anomalies
- Aliens

:wink:

Always maintain multiple working hypothesis
 
I have a bet going about what proportion of people actually believe in the claims of their religion, most people I know are secular - they may be Catholics or Jews and may well believe in God but they don't believe in miracles.
OK, though I might question your use of the phrase "the claims of their religion." That could be taken to suggest that Christianity 'proper,' Judaism 'proper,' Vaishnaiva Hinduism 'proper' etc., entails taking every word of every text generally considered 'scripture' by said religion literally--which is not in fact how most religions or denominations have ever worked. Some religions or denominations have no formal doctrinal code at all. I'm not arguing the point that adherents of various religions do indeed often disbelieve in specific doctrines which really are formally proclaimed by the designated institutional leaders of their denominations, merely observing that this notion of "the claims of their religion" is prone to being conceived of as something more set-in-stone than it actually is.
 
I'm not, I can think of several reasons why.
- The Earth experiences a magnetic reversal which switches the north and south magnetic pole making the sun rise in the West tomorrow, it happens with periodicity and we are about due for one now.
- Astronomical anomalies
- Aliens

:wink:

Always maintain multiple working hypothesis

Rounding helps me sleep better.........
 
OK, though I might question your use of the phrase "the claims of their religion." That could be taken to suggest that Christianity 'proper,' Judaism 'proper,' Vaishnaiva Hinduism 'proper' etc., entails taking every word of every text generally considered 'scripture' by said religion literally--which is not in fact how most religions or denominations have ever worked. Some religions or denominations have no formal doctrinal code at all. I'm not arguing the point that adherents of various religions do indeed often disbelieve in specific doctrines which really are formally proclaimed by the designated institutional leaders of their denominations, merely observing that this notion of "the claims of their religion" is prone to being conceived of as something more set-in-stone than it actually is.
Very fair call.
 
That depends on which religion is true, they aren't exactly mutually compatible, though if there was an afterlife and no God I would be more right than most.

Actually they're all linked..and based on your desire to progress will determine where you feel the most comfortable.


Eventually all who desire to do good will accept Christ and find that He was the author of all things good.

Todd Bentley -God is Releasing a Sundar Singh Annointing | http://deceptionbytes.com

<>
 
Another Protestant that taught truths that were similar to Joseph Smith was this guy:

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He saw that departed souls were taught Christ's true gospel, those that desired it and never had a chance in the flesh.

He taught that the Trinity notion was man made and that Faith alone can't save us.

All this was based on the visitation of Angels and visions he had over 3 decades.

Bollocks.

He was presecuted by unbelievers and the main stream church in his day as well.

<>
 
you should spend more time here

Welcome to Reading Is Fundamental

calling your blanket statement about christ/people who do good "bollocks" is hardly the same as presecuting (sic) you

Or do you react that way every time someone disagrees with something you say ?

That's like the reaction I alluded to earlier. You say you don't believe in God, and they react as if heaven just exploded.
 
That's like the reaction I alluded to earlier. You say you don't believe in God, and they react as if heaven just exploded.

I've never met another human being like that in my entire life. And western Maryland is about as conservative as it gets. It's basically an extension of West Virginia.
 
I've never met another human being like that in my entire life. And western Maryland is about as conservative as it gets. It's basically an extension of West Virginia.

That's great. In my entire time in Germany I haven't met such a person as well. But that's basically because a.) religion doesn't play a role so no one asks and b.) religious people are much more moderate, except for some parts of the south and other staunchly Catholic areas.

The overwhelming majority, thankfully, doesn't care at all about your religion, or non-religion, or at least doesn't ask.
Nevertheless, the acceptance of religious people no matter what denomination is way higher than those who don't believe at all.

And furthermore, you are religious yourself, so why should people react that way towards you? Have you ever debated agnosticism/atheism with a large bunch of those people?
 
I've never met another human being like that in my entire life. And western Maryland is about as conservative as it gets. It's basically an extension of West Virginia.

We have a poster on this very thread who just said:

Eventually all who desire to do good will accept Christ and find that He was the author of all things good.

Now I've never met anyone in my life who would say such a thing either but apparently they exist.

yolland, when will you accept Jesus?
 
Aren't you a visionary?

Jam 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights.

Moroni 7:12

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually


<>
 
Jam 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights.

Moroni 7:12

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually


<>


Since we're quoting fictional characters:

Gregory House: Religion is a symptom of irrational belief and groundless hope.
 
We have a poster on this very thread who just said:



Now I've never met anyone in my life who would say such a thing either but apparently they exist.

yolland, when will you accept Jesus?

Heh, yeah, I should have said "I've never encountered someone like that in real life."

The internet serves all kinds.
 
Really?

James 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights.

Bible.jpg


I think that entire book is a fraud, but nice try.
 
I certainly have heard about what Vincent is describing before. Specifically, I'm thinking of several incidents involving visiting faculty--usually from Europe--who offhandedly said something to the effect of "Well, I'm an atheist, so I really don't care about these things" (to students, neighbors, whatever) in response to some discussion concerning religion they'd found themselves entangled in, then were startled to discover they'd clearly said something extremely unwelcome. It's not, of course, that people suddenly start pelting them with rocks and chase them into the street--more the sort of thing you sometimes encounter traveling abroad, where a comment you assumed was totally neutral and innocent clearly somehow gave offense, and you're nonplussed by that result perhaps to the point of feeling a bit hurt that whomever you're talking to doesn't know you well enough by now to see that you're a considerate, thoroughly nonmalicious sort. While I do think the generally more religious and culturally conservative nature of American society has something to do with this, and that the increased awareness of atheism via the not-always-flattering example of Hitchens, Dawkins et al. doesn't help, I also think the many decades of the 20th century Americans spent marinating in Cold War rhetoric relentlessly associating atheism with Communism, imminent threats to national integrity, and all-around menacing 'subversiveness' might play an even bigger role. That predisposes many to perceive atheism as an inherently hostile, spit-in-your-face, unnervingly 'foreign' proposition; an attack on or rejection of community somehow, and not simply a theological stance. Hence the numerous polls demonstrating that Americans are more accepting of the idea of a woman, African-American, bachelor, Jew, Muslim, or gay man in the White House than a Nice White Married Atheist Guy.

Religious exclusivism is something quite different; as a Jew I've certainly been told numerous times that I'm going to hell for "rejecting Christ" or various more benign variations thereof, but the reaction I was describing above comes from a different place than that; it's more about implied underlying understandings of community, who's a citizen in good standing and who isn't, rather than a theological insistence.
 
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