Against Law to hold bible study?

[EdgeNBono]

i just heard on the news that a pastor has to apply for a permit to hold bible study in his home..it may be in california im not sure..be great if anyone could get me the link to this story

 

[deep]

"Ask and ye shall receive."

San Diego officials question pastor about permits for home Bible study

San Diego, Calif., May 30, 2009 / 10:24 am (CNA).- A California pastor and his wife have claimed that San Diego County officials asked intrusive religious questions and threatened them with fines because of a weekly Bible study in their home. The incident has prompted a national religious freedom organization to reiterate its willingness to assist anyone in a similar situation.

County officials had responded to a complaint about overflow parking by guests at a monthly dinner and Bible study held at the Pastor David Jones’ Bonita, California house for the past five years. A friend who was visiting a neighbor of the Joneses complained about the parking overflow.

Pastor Jones told KGTV San Diego that a county code enforcement officer had asked his wife Mary for details about the meetings.

"She said, 'Do you say amen?' and my wife said, 'Well, yes,'" Jones said.

"And she said, 'Do you say praise the Lord?’ she said, 'Well, yes but what does that have to with it?'"

Chandra Wallar of the county’s land use and environment group told KGTV it was the officer’s job to determine what kind of event was being hosted to decide what part of county code the event falls under.

Wallar said Bible studies are “probably in a very gray area,” adding that authorities want to ensure that parking is safe and does not block access to fire trucks or police vehicles.

Attorneys for Jones told KGTV it appeared that the county was backing away from its original warning issued in April.

The written warning to Jones noted an “unlawful use of land” and ordered him to stop hosting “religious assemblies.”

"They can stop religious activities in the courthouses and that but they're trying to stop prayer in my house," Jones complained.

Eric Rassbach, National Litigation Director at the Becket Fund, claimed in a statement that San Diego County had brought “KGB tactics” to Southern California.

"Government agents have no place questioning American citizens about how they choose to worship in their own home."

"Unfortunately this case is not all that unusual,” he added, saying “local zoning apparatchiks” across the U.S. try to shut down home-based Christian Bible studies and Jewish prayer meetings “all the time.”

“People of faith should know that federal civil rights law protects against this kind of government intrusion into matters of conscience, and the Becket Fund is ready to help,” he said.

San Diego officials question pastor about permits for home Bible study

 

[EdgeNBono]

thanks deep

 

[BVS]

Sounds like we have some power hungry code enforcers...

 

[INDY500]

Prelude to the power hungry speech code enforcers.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

"They can stop religious activities in the courthouses and that but they're trying to stop prayer in my house," Jones complained.

You can pray all you want, dude, just quit blocking the streets while you do it.

This is not a religious issue, this is just the Christian right once again trying to claim they're being discriminated against (because apparently the only good discrimination, in their eyes, is when they're doing the discriminating.)

We had a very similar issue in my town, except it had nothing to do with a church or prayer meetings... parents picking up their children from an elementary school were daily blocking streets and congesting traffic.

 

[Liesje]

Yeah, my college house was threatened by the neighborhood association because all the previous tenants had parked way too many cars on the street and right up to the corner (not cool for visibility, or the firestation that is right there).

 

[Irvine511]

Prelude to the power hungry speech code enforcers.

this sounds like a job for Carrie Prejean -- the prettiest Christian in America!

 

[floweravalanche]

Personally this goes against the US constitution I've done bible studies in home for a long time there is nothing wrong with it if they want to start complaining about blocking the street then they would have to do that to anyone that does something at their house, bday parties, bbq's etc. Stupid if you tell me

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

Personally this goes against the US constitution I've done bible studies in home for a long time there is nothing wrong with it if they want to start complaining about blocking the street then they would have to do that to anyone that does something at their house, bday parties, bbq's etc. Stupid if you tell me

How do you know they don't?

Two examples have already been posted in this thread, from myself and Liesje. This is a traffic issue, not a religious issue. People are just reading into it what they want so they can get their panties in a twist. It wouldn't even be newsworthy if people didn't start screaming "religious persecution!" over something that has nothing to do with either.

 

[phillyfan26]

Carpool. Problem solved.

 

[floweravalanche]

I think it wouldn't have gotten into a realgouis attack if the officer didn't ask, do you say amen and do you say praise God, could of just ask can you please dont have so many people or have it somewhere else or something. Like I said before I go to bible studies at homes it's nothing more then a few friends getting together, reading their bible, etc. No different then a book club etc.

I'm not getting my panties in a bunch I'm just stating facts of how I feel. Christian or not doesn't matter, it's the matter how the situation was approached, but stating it was unlaw use of land etc is BS if you ask me.

There are two things going on here in my opinion personal attacks and a concern of safety because of the "traffic" but I never had problems when I went to bible studies. But yeah whatever.

But we don't have to be having personal attacks in this fourm over it.

 

[floweravalanche]

Carpool. Problem solved.

It's not that simple, some leave earlier then others, family emergencies, etc. Some probably do car pool I know I do sometimes, but some can't for emergency reasons etc

 

[INDY500]

this sounds like a job for Carrie Prejean -- the prettiest Christian in America!

I remember people saying she needs to "just shut up" but who did she try to silence?

 

[Liesje]

Personally this goes against the US constitution

So the Constitution protects lazy college kids who violate city codes and block in fire tucks? We have the right to assemble and get drunk!!!

Block parties are really common around here but they are arranged with the city well in advance and they actually come out and block off the streets for parking.

Not saying I agree with freaking out about the parking situation but this definitely has nothing to do with Bible studies/Christianity.

 

[phillyfan26]

It's not that simple, some leave earlier then others, family emergencies, etc. Some probably do car pool I know I do sometimes, but some can't for emergency reasons etc

Of course it's not that simple. I'm mocking the fact that this shouldn't be news.

 

[BVS]

INDY, flower, did either of you actually read the article?

This is just one over zealous code enforcer, that's it, don't fall for this...

I'm hoping you are smarter than this.

 

[indra]

Carpool. Problem solved.

Permit on-street parking only on certain residential streets. It's great to actually be able to park on your own street.

 

[phillyfan26]

The idea of not being able to park on a particular street is foreign to me.

 

[floweravalanche]

INDY, flower, did either of you actually read the article?

This is just one over zealous code enforcer, that's it, don't fall for this...

I'm hoping you are smarter than this.

I read it and was just stating a couple things nothing more nothing less.

but like I always say to each its own.

I wonder if I would get in trouble for have the wrong car parked in the wrong area because it cause traffic. HEY LOOK EVERYONE MY CAR IS PINK WITH POKA DOTS!

 

[indra]

The idea of not being able to park on a particular street is foreign to me.

It was to me until I moved to an area bordering on an area which gets huge crowds at certain times a year. Not being able to park on your own street (or even more maddening -- being boxed in your own driveway by someone who just didn't want to pay to park in a lot) gets old really quick.

On the plus side, there are lots of fender-benders on these busy days to provide entertainment for the residents.

The permit only parking, which is actually only on a few of the most affected streets, and fairly aggressive ticketing/towing policy over the past couple of years has really helped the situation.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

I think it wouldn't have gotten into a realgouis attack if the officer didn't ask, do you say amen and do you say praise God, could of just ask can you please dont have so many people or have it somewhere else or something..

The article is very vague, and we're really only getting one side of the story. Perhaps the code enforcer needed to determine the difference between whether the gathering was a bible study or a full fledged church service. I'm sure there's some code against holding actual church services in a residential home... even if it were something as simple as a fire code. Again, it's not a specific religious issue, it's a zoning issue. A church is considered something of a business, and may not be allowed in a residential area. Just like I could get in trouble if I decided to open up a beauty parlor in my kitchen. The line between what is lawful could be determined simply by whether I was just doing nails, or if I was doing perms too. I might need a permit for one and not the other, but I wouldn't shout "hair discrimination!" over it if an official questioned me about it.

Like I said before I go to bible studies at homes it's nothing more then a few friends getting together, reading their bible, etc. No different then a book club etc.

How big is a book club, usually? Five people? We don't know how many people are attending this bible study. It could be upwards of 20+. That's a lot of cars. I know I'd be pissed if I got home and found I couldn't park near my own home or pull into my own driveway because the street was packed with guests of a single neighbour... to me I wouldn't care whether they were praising God or frying a turkey in the back yard. They don't need to be parking their cars all over the place.

There are two things going on here in my opinion personal attacks and a concern of safety because of the "traffic" but I never had problems when I went to bible studies. But yeah whatever.

I never had problems when I went to bible studies either... and these were large gatherings of people... but we weren't blocking residential streets. Parking was done in a single, large, private driveway.

But we don't have to be having personal attacks in this fourm over it.

I wasn't referring to your panties, dear. I was referring to the people in the article.

Of course it's not that simple. I'm mocking the fact that this shouldn't be news.

It's only news because people want something to complain about, and certain groups of people love to imagine they're being discriminated against.

 

[BonosSaint]

Car pool. Unless there is a large amount of people, that should be a win/win.

 

[nathan1977]

If this was simply a parking problem, why the intrusive questions about whether or not attendees said "Amen" or "praise the Lord"?

 

[phillyfan26]

It was to me until I moved to an area bordering on an area which gets huge crowds at certain times a year. Not being able to park on your own street (or even more maddening -- being boxed in your own driveway by someone who just didn't want to pay to park in a lot) gets old really quick.

On the plus side, there are lots of fender-benders on these busy days to provide entertainment for the residents.

The permit only parking, which is actually only on a few of the most affected streets, and fairly aggressive ticketing/towing policy over the past couple of years has really helped the situation.

My only experience is dealing with all these fucking grad parties at this time of year. They're sell-outs, man.

 

[phillyfan26]

If this was simply a parking problem, why the intrusive questions about whether or not attendees said "Amen" or "praise the Lord"?

Something about figuring out what kind of gathering to file it under as. I'm sure it wasn't as intrusive as the "we're oppressed Christians!" types were making it out to be.

 

[nathan1977]

Something about figuring out what kind of gathering to file it under as. I'm sure it wasn't as intrusive as the "we're oppressed Christians!" types were making it out to be.

The written warning to Jones noted an “unlawful use of land” and ordered him to stop hosting “religious assemblies.”

Seems pretty obvious to me.