2012 Presidential Debates

[cobl04]

"Eye Of The Sparrow" — A Bad Lip Reading of the First 2012 Presidential Debate - YouTube

[deep]

October 9, 2012
Romney Pledges to Keep Tax Deductions for Mortgages
By TRIP GABRIEL and HELENE COOPER

CUYAHOGA FALLS, Ohio — Continuing to embrace a more moderate political persona, Mitt Romney offered assurances on Tuesday that he would protect tax deductions for the middle class on home mortgages and charitable donations.

He also said he had no plans to pursue new laws limiting abortion.

“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” he told the editorial board of The Des Moines Register.

With new polling suggesting that he was closing the gap with President Obama in the crucial battleground of Ohio, Mr. Romney subtly distanced himself from earlier divisive statements as he sought to broaden his appeal, especially with women.

Why would anyone not want to give this guy a chance? He is so reasonable.

[PhilsFan]

This election has turned purely into a culture war, because no one actually has any idea what Mitt Romney's policies in office would be.

[BEAL]

John Kerry was destroyed by the Right for being a flip flopper, and now they have one that's an even bigger flop than him!!!!

[mikal]

Originally Posted by BEAL

John Kerry was destroyed by the Right for being a flip flopper, and now they have one that's an even bigger flop than him!!!!

yep. Hopefully Obama will really go on the aggressive in the next debate.

I remember the one thing that stuck with me in 2004 was within all of Bush's rambling, he called Kerry a flip flopper at least 15 times in the town hall debate.

Considering the obvious short attention span of our country (proven by the new polls after the first debate), I believe that if Obama says the word "Flip Flop" enough, he should secure the victory.

[Irvine511]

The problem, though, is tha Obama -- like all successful black men -- is keenly aware of the "angry black man" caricature and what that does to conservative whites. Kind of like how women must be "ladylike" at all times.

[mikal]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

The problem, though, is tha Obama -- like all successful black men -- is keenly aware of the "angry black man" caricature and what that does to conservative whites. Kind of like how women must be "ladylike" at all times.

Good point, I wonder how subtle, sarcastic jabs would come across. Maybe say things like "Interesting position Mr. Romney. Definitely a different position than yesterday. What will your position be on _____ issue tomorrow?"

[iron yuppie]

This is one of the major complications of American political culture. People consistently decry the negativity and smear-campaigns of election season, but then when a candidate appears measured and unwilling to take jabs at the opponent, that candidate is labeled "soft" or "weak." I think that is a tightrope that every presidential candidate, Republican or Democrat, will find difficult to walk.

[iron yuppie]

“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” he told the editorial board of The Des Moines Register.

The smartest thing that he could possibly do at this point in terms of his campaign viability is to back off the social issues. I have no idea whether he would hold to the above statement if elected, but he must have realized that he cannot possibly win while holding antagonistic attitudes toward women and many minority demographics.

[LemonMelon]

I'm hoping Paul Ryan is dumb/zealous enough to fall into that trap though. The margin for error is so small right now, he can easily drag Romney down by association.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

John Kerry didn't lose because he was accused of being a flip flopper. Kerry lost because he was an awful candidate.

[Diemen]

“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” he told the editorial board of The Des Moines Register.

Apparently you're unfamiliar with your own platform, then. Here's what Romney's campaign spokesman had to say as a follow up:

“Governor Romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing greater protections for life.”

Here's another chestnut from Romney:

"Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan."

Except they're not. Cue campaign spokesman again:

"We will give the state initiatives and money so that they can manage these decisions on their own. But, of course, we'd like them to see them continue that pre-existing band for those who have continuous coverage."

And as we all know, preferring something would happen is pretty much as good as law in this country, right?

The ease and frequency of Romney's lies is something to behold. And oddly enough, none of his supporters seem to mind the staggering inconsistency and deception.So yeah, he might be trying to distance himself from some of his more extreme positions, but he's not actually changing any of them.

[deep]

the man is on a 'mission'

that mission has 27 days to go, win a few toss up states

success of mission? improving daily.

[deep]

no toss up states map

294 Obama/Biden -- Romney/Ryan 244


RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map No Toss Ups

VA will flip next, then it will be

281 Obama/Biden -- Romney/Ryan 257

and Romney will only be 13 electoral votes away


it does look like Ohio, is the firewall

[mikal]

Originally Posted by deep

no toss up states map

294 Obama/Biden -- Romney/Ryan 244


RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map No Toss Ups

VA will flip next, then it will be

281 Obama/Biden -- Romney/Ryan 257

and Romney will only be 13 electoral votes away


it does look like Ohio, is the firewall

All of that is assuming that his momentum continues. I personally woulndn't be surprised if Romney has already hit his peak and that you'll soon see these toss up states start to flip back to Obama.

You and I do agree though that just like Ohio was the firewall for Kerry, it will also be the firewall for 2012's version of a flip flopper.

[MrsSpringsteen]

I for one think President Obama needs to get "angry". Show some passion, defend yourself, point out Romney's weaknesses . Because if he continues to perform like he did in that debate then maybe he really doesn't deserve reelection. Or want it, I don't know.

Like I said before, that whole angry black man thing disgusts me. If I were him I'd rather lose than to have to cowtow to that bullshit. People who believe in that wouldn't vote for him regardless. No matter how deferential he was to the white man.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

I for one think President Obama needs to get "angry". Show some passion, defend yourself, point out Romney's weaknesses . Because if he continues to perform like he did in that debate then maybe he really doesn't deserve reelection. Or want it, I don't know.

Like I said before, that whole angry black man thing disgusts me. If I were him I'd rather lose than to have to cowtow to that bullshit. People who believe in that wouldn't vote for him regardless. No matter how deferential he was to the white man.

I fully agree. He has a right to be angry. Angry at Congress for being immature babies and refusing to work together on anything. Angry at the Republicans for blocking/refusing to support anything he's done so far, and for turning on their very own positions the moment they find out he actually supported something of theirs. Angry at his supporters who just sat back after the election and thought he'd take care of everything for them instead of continuing to work for and alongside him. Angry at the American people at large for buying into "death panels" BS and other stupid scare tactics of that kind instead of listening to the actual facts. Angry at people on the right questioning the legitimacy of his birth and making racist and xenophobic remarks and images about him and his family-he ESPECIALLY has the right to be pissed off about that stuff, because that's just downright offensive. Angry at Romney for telling flat out lies during the debate and in the campaign in general, and so on.

Awwwww, he might scare some people who can't handle someone like Obama getting "angry", poor babies. Well, tough crap, people, deal with it. I find the stereotypical "angry white male" annoying at best, scary at worst, so I guess we're even, then?

[cobl04]

He should do a Julia Gillard.

[deep]

I do not expect this VP debate to have much effect on the polls

much different than last election.

[Irvine511]

in 1988, Lloyd Bentson provided perhaps the biggest smackdown of any candidate, ever, in a debate:

Lloyd Bentsen puts down Dan Quayle - YouTube

i was a child watching with my parents, and i still remember this moment. it's amazing, cathartic, and spectacularly delivered.

and H. W. Bush won handily.

the Veep doesn't matter.

what Biden needs to do is look alive, engaged, and not fuck up.