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Old 09-07-2012, 01:30 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
1) This week is the Democratic National Convention so it wasn't "Uber Right Wing Republicans" trying to reinstate God into the Democratic Party Platform, it was fellow Democrats.

2) The religion being shoved down the throats of the booing Democrats was as follows: “we need a government that stands up for the hopes, values and interests of working people and gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential.”

Would you boo that dazzled?

Let me ask you something, were the signers of the Declaration of Indepence shoving religion down the throat of "everyone else's[/B] personal religious, spiritual, or ethical humanistic views," with "We hold these truths to be self-evide, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights"?
1> Hhmmm I think i may have made a mistake in terms of context/chronology that this happened. If the booing incident was in reference to when they added God into the Party Platform's planks.......then I definately made a mistake.

Then the booing was probably coming from Secular Humanists or Atheists objecting to it's inclusion into the Platform.

And I still stand by the larger issue of Uber-Rightwing Religious Christians trying to shove their version of God ( and equivalents in Catholicism etc) down other Religeous, Spiritual, or Atheisict people's throats and try to turn America into a Theocracy.


2> I am not an Atheist, I am a Spiritual Person but my concept of what "God" is way diferent that what I grew up as a half Eastern-European Catholic was taught to believe (or the 3 Mono-theistic religions believe). So (sorry, Irvine) I do not bristle at the term the way many S-H or A's do.

And I sometimes may side with certain things that S-H & A's
point out/object to.

As to our Founding Fathers.....

My point 2 would partialy cover that. Also most of theFF's were Diests. If I remember the defintion correctly a deist believes there is a Creator that made our world, set it in motion and all the others (plus te rest of our universe) etc BUT then left Humankind on Earth to deal with Life and each other themselves. "He" exited Earth's stage for good.

Some of them if wot all became learned men and undsertood the ? Internicine Wars that bloodied Europe, and vowed not to impose any Goverment sanctioned religion here in America.

I think that covers all your points/questions.


PS i remember a pretty long time ago hearing that one of the FF may have been a Druid whether at the time of them being aFF or maybe being raised that way.


haven't thought about that in a long time!
Will ggl!
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:40 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
zomg etc U2 song etc

I need to watch for the audience shots - a friend of mine left our company this year to go work for the re-election campaign, and a coworker said she thought she caught her in the crowd last night.

This is the first speech I'm watching, just so I don't have t
]

oooooo a u2 song/instrumental section was played?

Wow very cool for your friend!!

I've done local campaigning in the past.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:51 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
It's 11 PM, he's still talking, and President Obama has already introduced on stage more than enough straw men to fill the now empty Bank of America Panther stadium.

"Over and over again we're told by our opponents that bigger tax cuts and fewer regulations are the only way to go and that since government can't do everything it should do almost nothing."

Give me a break.
well if that statment isn't true then what is?

BEFORE you answer that let me add that that statement is true much of the time. The other element/aspect I'd add in is that from what i've heard it that RWR expect Charaties and Churches to help fill the gap in certain areas.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:53 AM   #384
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You mean that isn't the message the Republicans have been sending?


maybe we need our ears cleaned, ML!
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:25 AM   #385
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INDY, I am going to sum up my thoughts in one concise statement:

You are too intelligent to support Mitt Romney's asinine, flagrantly inaccurate bullshit.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:29 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
I'll just say you don't seem to hold Bill Clinton to the same standard as Paul Ryan when it comes to "lies."
The difference is, Paul Ryan was telling blatant lies, whereas Bill Clinton was basically mentioning correct facts.
FactCheck.org : Ryan’s VP Spin
Quote:
Paul Ryan’s acceptance speech at the Republican convention contained several false claims and misleading statements. Delegates cheered as the vice presidential nominee:

Accused President Obama’s health care law of funneling money away from Medicare “at the expense of the elderly.” In fact, Medicare’s chief actuary says the law “substantially improves” the system’s finances, and Ryan himself has embraced the same savings.
Accused Obama of doing “exactly nothing” about recommendations of a bipartisan deficit commission — which Ryan himself helped scuttle.
Claimed the American people were “cut out” of stimulus spending. Actually, more than a quarter of all stimulus dollars went for tax relief for workers.
Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office.
Blamed Obama for the loss of a AAA credit rating for the U.S. Actually, Standard & Poor’s blamed the downgrade on the uncompromising stands of both Republicans and Democrats.

And when he wasn’t attacking Obama, Ryan was puffing up the record of his running mate, Mitt Romney, on taxes and unemployment.
FactCheck.org : Our Clinton Nightmare
Quote:
Former President Bill Clinton’s stem-winding nomination speech was a fact-checker’s nightmare: lots of effort required to run down his many statistics and factual claims, producing little for us to write about.

Republicans will find plenty of Clinton’s scorching opinions objectionable. But with few exceptions, we found his stats checked out.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:31 AM   #387
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Did Paul Ryan lie about the closing automobile factory? Are you sure?
Yes, he did. As I stated in my previous post, Ryan "[f]aulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office."
So yes, the automobile factory got closed, but not that Obama was at fault here.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:51 AM   #388
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people go to to defend something (or someone), because doing otherwise would (in their minds) contradict or completely shatter their worldview.

It's completely okay to call out your own for saying or doing things they shouldn't be. It's how improvement and - gasp! - progress can be achieved, something that will benefit people of all political stripes for the long term.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #389
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John Kerry made this point:

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And let me say something else. No nominee for president should ever fail in the midst of a war to pay tribute to our troops overseas in his acceptance speech. Mitt Romney was talking about America. They are on the front lines every day defending America, and they deserve our thanks.
Bill Kristol has criticized Romney for the same but generally on the right there have been crickets. Can you imagine the type of slander that would have come Obama's way, or any Democrat's way, if they were to completely ignore the troops? We'd be hearing all about how this is another sign of them hating America and hating the troops.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Quick, what was one specific in the president's speech.
I don't know.... adding 20,000 science and math teachers? Or there's pulling out of Afghanistan in 2014 (which was already announced), rejecting the Republican notion that cutting taxes even more while increasing defense will somehow magically grow the economy.

Look, Clinton and Obama absolutely relied on numbers and actual policies, while Ryan and Romney were intentionally vague. I get it, they don't want to be held to specifics if by some miracle they are elected, still the contrast between the DNC and RNC was stark in that regard.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #391
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Can you imagine the type of slander that would have come Obama's way, or any Democrat's way, if they were to completely ignore the troops? We'd be hearing all about how this is another sign of them hating America and hating the troops.
Yep-that's 100% correct
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #392
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I'll have to get back to you after I'm done running a sub-3 hour marathon.
Sarah Palin actually has at least one faster marathon time than he does. I don't trust people who lie about something like that. Maybe he just "misremembered" (over one hour faster is some vast misremembering). Or maybe he's very insecure.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:35 PM   #393
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a devotee of Ayn Rand would have to be exceptional
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:40 PM   #394
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Eastwood talks about convention chat with chair
AP / September 7, 2012


LOS ANGELES (AP) — Clint Eastwood said the idea to use an empty seat as a prop at the Republican National Convention was a spur-of-the-moment decision when someone backstage asked him if he wanted to sit down.

In his first interview since he attended the convention to pledge his support for Mitt Romney, Eastwood told the Carmel Pine Cone, a small California weekly newspaper, that his speech was not only unscripted, it was pretty much spontaneous.

‘‘There was a stool there, and some fella kept asking me if I wanted to sit down,’’ Eastwood told the newspaper, which published the article Friday. ‘‘When I saw the stool sitting there, it gave me the idea. I'll just put the stool out there and I'll talk to Mr. Obama and ask him why he didn’t keep all of the promises he made to everybody.’’

Eastwood’s peculiar, sometimes rambling conversation with an imaginary President Barack Obama in an empty chair set the blogosphere and social media ablaze. His appearance was intended to be a ringing endorsement for Romney, but the esteemed 82-year-old actor and director opened himself up to ridicule.

Eastwood said he achieved what he set out to do and got across three points.

‘‘That not everybody in Hollywood is on the left, that Obama has broken a lot of the promises he made when he took office, and that the people should feel free to get rid of any politician who’s not doing a good job,’’ Eastwood said. ‘‘But I didn’t make up my mind exactly what I was going to say until I said it.’’

Eastwood’s longtime manager, Leonard Hirshan, told The Associated Press he was not aware of the Pine Cone newspaper article. ‘‘You’re telling me something for the first time,’’ he said. Hirshan stressed that as a manager, he wouldn’t necessarily know about Eastwood’s dealings with the media. The actor has no publicist.

While Eastwood said his presentation was ‘‘very unorthodox,’’ that was his intent from the outset and he had plenty of people giving him advice on what to say.

‘‘Everybody had advice for me, except the janitor,’’ Eastwood said.

Eastwood said he was told to speak for five minutes but he said it was difficult to gauge time and there weren’t any signals or cues telling him to wrap up.

Romney and his running mate, Paul Ryan, later came backstage to thank him.

‘‘They were very enthusiastic, and we were all laughing,’’ Eastwood said.

Eastwood, who stars in the upcoming movie ‘‘Trouble with the Curve,’’ maintains Obama doesn’t deserve a second term as president.

‘‘President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people,’’ Eastwood said. ‘‘Romney and Ryan would do a much better job running the country, and that’s what everybody needs to know. I may have irritated a lot of the lefties, but I was aiming for people in the middle.’’
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:01 PM   #395
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I think some of those Google April Fool's jokes were better hoaxes than Obama, but that's just me.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:25 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Eastwood talks about convention chat with chair
AP / September 7, 2012


LOS ANGELES (AP) — Clint Eastwood said the idea to use an empty seat as a prop at the Republican National Convention was a spur-of-the-moment decision when someone backstage asked him if he wanted to sit down.

In his first interview since he attended the convention to pledge his support for Mitt Romney, Eastwood told the Carmel Pine Cone, a small California weekly newspaper, that his speech was not only unscripted, it was pretty much spontaneous.

‘‘There was a stool there, and some fella kept asking me if I wanted to sit down,’’ Eastwood told the newspaper, which published the article Friday. ‘‘When I saw the stool sitting there, it gave me the idea. I'll just put the stool out there and I'll talk to Mr. Obama and ask him why he didn’t keep all of the promises he made to everybody.’’

Eastwood’s peculiar, sometimes rambling conversation with an imaginary President Barack Obama in an empty chair set the blogosphere and social media ablaze. His appearance was intended to be a ringing endorsement for Romney, but the esteemed 82-year-old actor and director opened himself up to ridicule.

Eastwood said he achieved what he set out to do and got across three points.

‘‘That not everybody in Hollywood is on the left, that Obama has broken a lot of the promises he made when he took office, and that the people should feel free to get rid of any politician who’s not doing a good job,’’ Eastwood said. ‘‘But I didn’t make up my mind exactly what I was going to say until I said it.’’

Eastwood’s longtime manager, Leonard Hirshan, told The Associated Press he was not aware of the Pine Cone newspaper article. ‘‘You’re telling me something for the first time,’’ he said. Hirshan stressed that as a manager, he wouldn’t necessarily know about Eastwood’s dealings with the media. The actor has no publicist.

While Eastwood said his presentation was ‘‘very unorthodox,’’ that was his intent from the outset and he had plenty of people giving him advice on what to say.

‘‘Everybody had advice for me, except the janitor,’’ Eastwood said.

Eastwood said he was told to speak for five minutes but he said it was difficult to gauge time and there weren’t any signals or cues telling him to wrap up.

Romney and his running mate, Paul Ryan, later came backstage to thank him.

‘‘They were very enthusiastic, and we were all laughing,’’ Eastwood said.

Eastwood, who stars in the upcoming movie ‘‘Trouble with the Curve,’’ maintains Obama doesn’t deserve a second term as president.

‘‘President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people,’’ Eastwood said. ‘‘Romney and Ryan would do a much better job running the country, and that’s what everybody needs to know. I may have irritated a lot of the lefties, but I was aiming for people in the middle.’’


I read the article this morning. Thanks for sharing here.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:56 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
John Kerry made this point:



Bill Kristol has criticized Romney for the same but generally on the right there have been crickets. Can you imagine the type of slander that would have come Obama's way, or any Democrat's way, if they were to completely ignore the troops? We'd be hearing all about how this is another sign of them hating America and hating the troops.






You could de,liver electrical power to a major Major American City; like Chicago, LA or NYC for a whole year with that amount of reactive engergy!
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:10 PM   #398
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"Over and over again we're told by our opponents that bigger tax cuts and fewer regulations are the only way to go and that since government can't do everything it should do almost nothing."

Give me a break.
How is this not the very argument you yourself have been making in this forum ever since I can remember?

What government spending have you been on record as supporting, other than defense? What regulations have you supported? Which tax cuts have you opposed?
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #399
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RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map No Toss Ups

this map looks good to me,
I think the only for sure pick up for Romney is NC
I think the debates will be a bit like the conventions, each side will do about as expected, Obama/ Biden will do a little better and the decision will be they have a slight edge. Economy will stay about the same, no Europe melt down before election. Also, I don't expect Israel to go nutzo and bomb Iran.

It will be interesting to see what happens.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:43 PM   #400
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It will be interesting to see what happens.
Nothing ever happens.
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