10 y/o Boy Refuses to Say Pledge, Causes OUTRAGE!!!!!

[AnnRKeyintheUSA]

Another reason I think it's for media attention: if you don't want to say the pledge, just plain don't say it. I saw kids not saying it or just faking it lots of times in school. But announcing "I AM NOT SAYING IT FOR THIS REASON" means you want attention and hope it's from the media. It's like Britney Spears shaving her head in front of everybody- if she just wanted to be baldheaded she could have shaved it at home or in a private appointment. Shaving it in public showed she wanted media attention.

Oh and Jehovah's Witnesses have been refusing to say the pledge for years.

 

[phillyfan26]

Did you read how it became a media story? Apparently not.

 

[Irvine511]

It's the 9th U.S. Circuit Court. Judicial activism is their raison d'être.

better we just vote on which laws we like and which ones we don't.

 

[Irvine511]

I'm just having a hard time believing a ten year old understands what gays are or what he's actually doing.

3 year olds understand what gay people are.

oh, wait, did you mean that gay people are just gay sex? and that a 10 year old doesn't know that the only thing that makes you gay is fucking someone of the same gender?

because we never get that in here.

 

[Pearl]

I'm just having a hard time believing a ten year old understands what gays are or what he's actually doing. Some grownup must be behind this for media attention a la the balloon boy. (NO OFFENSE to the cause itself, just saying, ten years old, come on, he doesn't even know what sex is yet how can he understand the gay plight? )

Maybe the kid has gay parents? Or has a family member who is gay? Perhaps his parents discuss gay issues like any other news of the day over dinner. Either way, sounds like the boy is already much aware of the world compared to most 10 year olds.

 

[INDY500]

better we just vote on which laws we like and which ones we don't.

Yes and No, we're a constitutional republic. As such, rights should be enumerated by the constitution; laws, on the other hand, if not voted on directly should, via legislation, represent the will of the majority -- "we the people."

Courts exist to protect individual rights but also to uphold the law.

Wacky idea idnit?

 

[Irvine511]

i'm just happy that he doesn't think that gay = retarded.

like most 10 year olds use those words interchangeably.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I'm just having a hard time believing a ten year old understands what gays are or what he's actually doing. Some grownup must be behind this for media attention a la the balloon boy. (NO OFFENSE to the cause itself, just saying, ten years old, come on, he doesn't even know what sex is yet how can he understand the gay plight? )

Lets say he doesnt quite understand what being gay is all about. Perhaps his only understanding is that there are people in his country being treated differently just because of the way they were born. In my opinion, that rudimentary understanding gets to the heart of the issue far quicker than any 'adult' debate on the matter

 

[Jive Turkey]

i'm just happy that he doesn't think that gay = retarded.

like most 10 year olds use those words interchangeably.

Good news, Irvine. The word 'fag' now refers to overly obnoxious Harley riders. w00t!

 

[BVS]

Another reason I think it's for media attention: if you don't want to say the pledge, just plain don't say it. I saw kids not saying it or just faking it lots of times in school. But announcing "I AM NOT SAYING IT FOR THIS REASON" means you want attention and hope it's from the media. It's like Britney Spears shaving her head in front of everybody- if she just wanted to be baldheaded she could have shaved it at home or in a private appointment. Shaving it in public showed she wanted media attention.

Oh and Jehovah's Witnesses have been refusing to say the pledge for years.

You should probably try reading the article. He didn't just announce it. He got berated by a substitute teacher and got sent to the principals office, and then a friend of the family contacted the media about the story.

So you are way off base here.

 

[BoMac]

I hope people are happy. This is what would happen if gay marriage were allowed - children would sympathize with the homosexual agenda, more people would tolerate the gay and lesbian lifestyle, and, of course, these very same children will grow up to be gay themselves, thereby eventually ending the human species in a few generations.

Let's not allow this to get out of hand, people.

 

[Jive Turkey]

if you don't believe in the country you take residence in, then don't come here, or just gggggggit out

 

[martha]

As such, rights should be enumerated by the constitution;

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

1. Why are substitute teachers notoriously insane? I've got stories for days. . .
2. I never make my students say the pledge. Ever. I don't even make them stand up. I just ask that they don't talk through it.

 

[martha]

Elementary is different. Especially in my neighborhood.

 

[digitize]

I never say the pledge in school, for reasons that have nothing to do with gay rights. My allegiance lies with humanity as a whole, and then the United States, if the United States is not working against human rights as a whole.

 

[Irvine511]

Courts exist to protect individual rights but also to uphold the law.

can this be my new signature?

 

[phillyfan26]

rights should be enumerated by the constitution

rights should be enumerated by the constitution

rights should be enumerated by the constitution

rights should be enumerated by the constitution

rights should be enumerated by the constitution

Years of arguing are over!

 

[BluRmGrl]

i'm just happy that he doesn't think that gay = retarded.

like most 10 year olds use those words interchangeably.

And a lot of 15yr olds, 20 yr olds, 25yr olds... well, you get the idea.


My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."

 

[BVS]

laws, on the other hand, if not voted on directly should, via legislation, represent the will of the majority

Because we all know from reading our American exceptionalism versions of the history books, the majority has never been wrong.

I have a great investment in a bridge INDY, real cheap, in fact true believers in AE get a discount. But you better act now while supplies last.

 

[BVS]

My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."

Did she apologize?

Yes the argument got heated, but he's 10 and knew he was in the right, she raised her voice first, the fact that he prefaced it with "with all due respect" actually makes me think this kid is more calm and collected than most adults I know.

Yes, he should apoligize, after she does, but I have to give the kid kudos, he handed it better than most people I know.

 

[VintagePunk]

My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."

As a parent, I've never been of the belief that adults are automatically deserving of respect from children. In this case, the adult in question blatantly disrespected the kid first, so I'd say that "jump off a bridge" is a relatively mild response after the teacher became angry and raised her voice to the kid for exercising his right. I think if anyone in this scenario deserves an apology, it's the kid.

For those doubting that the child could have come to this decision on his own, I don't know how much any of you have been exposed to kids in that age group, but some of them are precocious, and very insightful, more so than some adults.

Other than that, what I got out of this thread is: some schools start at 7 am?? That's nuts.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

wow. coincidentally, a nine/ten year old also didn't say the pledge when i was in the fourth grade. his friend in class was a jehovah's witness, and either he didn't say it out of respect for his friend or because he was lazy. i didn't know the exact reason because it wasn't a big deal. no one cared. and funnily enough, we had lots of substitute teachers that year due to our teacher's illness. i never remember it being an issue.

 

[martha]

And you were close to Arkansas, yes?

 

[BluRmGrl]

As a parent, I've never been of the belief that adults are automatically deserving of respect from children. In this case, the adult in question blatantly disrespected the kid first, so I'd say that "jump off a bridge" is a relatively mild response after the teacher became angry and raised her voice to the kid for exercising his right. I think if anyone in this scenario deserves an apology, it's the kid.

Oh, I agree that the sub didn't handle the situation properly - I mean, whether she really knew them or not, claiming that the kid's 'mother and grandmother' would 'want him to say the pledge'...WTF?? That shows me just how ridiculous the teacher was being about the issue & I think apologies are due all around. Because my take on the "With all due respect, go jump off a bridge" comment is that it's essentially the primary school version of "Nothing personal, but go fuck yourself." Prefacing it with a nice disclaimer doesn't make it any more appropriate.

 

[coolian2]

she didn't deserve his respect by not showing him any. same goes for any teacher who doesn't treat their students with respect. you can't force it. treat them like they aren't scum who should be honoured to just be in the teachers presence and it'll go a long way.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

And you were close to Arkansas, yes?

lol, actually i lived in florida then.

 

[VintagePunk]

Oh, I agree that the sub didn't handle the situation properly - I mean, whether she really knew them or not, claiming that the kid's 'mother and grandmother' would 'want him to say the pledge'...WTF?? That shows me just how ridiculous the teacher was being about the issue & I think apologies are due all around. Because my take on the "With all due respect, go jump off a bridge" comment is that it's essentially the primary school version of "Nothing personal, but go fuck yourself." Prefacing it with a nice disclaimer doesn't make it any more appropriate.

I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that within my own view of adult - child or teacher - student relations, in weighing the two offenses, the teacher's was much more egregious than the child's, and that the child's response was understandable, in light of the situation. As such, I think that any apology owed should be from the teacher to the child, not the reverse. I know that others may not necessarily hold the same view, though.

 

[martha]

lol, actually i lived in florida then.

Same thing, though.

 

[INDY500]

Years of arguing are over!

You do realize an enumerated right or power means "listed" or "written down" as opposed to a right or power which is "discovered" by judges where none before existed.

I'm all for protecting individual and minority rights from the tyranny of the majority but there is a certain tyranny of the minority when they are allowed to frame their every demand or grievance as a right, rather than a beseechment, thus removing it from democratic debate or vote.