Newbie needs equipment advice

[vanquish7]

I was looking at getting a guitar and kit.

What do people recommend for FX boxes and amps?
I dont mind spending a bit as I want quipment that has depth which I won't need to upgrade to something else, after I become proficient at guitar.

I was looking at the Line 6 M13 and a Vox AC-15, would that combination get me pretty close to Edge's tones? That's about all my budget can stretch to at the moment, are there any better choices at that price? What about the Boss GT-10?

I'm not looking to do gigs or anything atm, so I don't need a loud amp. Is it true though that you have to have the Voxs turned all the way up to get an Edge tone? If so, you can't get the amp to output through headphones can you? I don't want the neighbours complaining, everytime I practice.


Thanks

 

[Edge_Orchestra]

What do people recommend for FX boxes and amps?

Line 6 M13 and Vox Pathfinder, if you are playing at home. This will give you inexpensive but best bang for the buck.

Pathfinder is about $110

If you've a little more money, Vox AC15CC will get you in Edge-tone territory. They run about $599. AC15CC with blue Celestion speaker is a bit more but worth it - the tone will be far better.


M13 is better than the Boss GT, in my humble view.

Guitar-wise, Epiphone Explorer's are pretty good. Epiphone Les Paul's? Not as good. But you could get one and upgrade the pickups.

A decent Stratocaster is never a bad thing. Eric Johnson Stratocaster is over $1000 but will sound great. Chas from the U2 Tribute The Joshua Tree has one is it sounds great. Cheaper? No worries, even a MIM Stratocaster (Made in Fenders Mexico facility) can be decent with a pickup upgrade.

 

[vanquish7]

What do people recommend for FX boxes and amps?

Line 6 M13 and Vox Pathfinder, if you are playing at home. This will give you inexpensive but best bang for the buck.

Pathfinder is about $110

If you've a little more money, Vox AC15CC will get you in Edge-tone territory. They run about $599. AC15CC with blue Celestion speaker is a bit more but worth it - the tone will be far better.


M13 is better than the Boss GT, in my humble view.

Guitar-wise, Epiphone Explorer's are pretty good. Epiphone Les Paul's? Not as good. But you could get one and upgrade the pickups.

A decent Stratocaster is never a bad thing. Eric Johnson Stratocaster is over $1000 but will sound great. Chas from the U2 Tribute The Joshua Tree has one is it sounds great. Cheaper? No worries, even a MIM Stratocaster (Made in Fenders Mexico facility) can be decent with a pickup upgrade.

Thanks for the advice, I'm set on getting an Epi Explorer (only problem is it doesnt have a tremolo bar, does that matter?)
So the GT-10 isn't as good as the M13, what's the differences, are the quality of the effects not as good?
IIRC the M13 doesn't have amp simulation or an expression pedal like the Boss.

Though if I get an AC-15 I guess I dont need amp simulation do I? Or is it better to get a GT-10 and use it to simulate an AC-30 rather than getting a M13 with a AC-15? Which would get closer to the sound of an actual AC-30 and the Edge tone?

If I get a tube amp like the AC15, would I need to replace tubes and retune them or something, if so how often and how much do the replacements cost?

And can the M13 do the two different delays you need for a song like Streets?

Thanks

 

[branwalls]

E_O had some great advice. Explorers don't come standard with tremolo bridges, and Edge doesn't have one on his, so don't worry about that. The problem with trying to sound like The Edge is that he uses so many different guitars, and so many effects that it's almost impossible to isolate any one tone and call it "The Edge's tone." I think the reason no company has produced a signature The Edge guitar is that he really doesn't have a signature guitar (closest candidate would be the Explorer, but he only uses it on a few songs per show these days).

My advice would be to get a guitar--strat, tele, les paul, explorer, (Edge has used / uses them all)--that feels good and sounds good to you and then buy pedals as your budget allows. But most of all, save up for a top of the line amp. IMHO, when you're going for a specific tone, amps are more important than guitars. Anyway, have fun and welcome to the forum.

 

[vanquish7]

So I should go for a real Vox amp instead of amp modelling via the Boss Gt-10 (which will also act as an FX box)?

I was looking at getting an AC 15CC actually, its expensive but I can afford it. The only thing I dont know about is maintenance costs and know-how, tubes wear out eventually dont they? and will they need to be re-biased regularly? (how complicated is that to do) Is the AC 15 worth shelling out for over a Pathfinder?

If the guitar experts on here think a Vox AC 15 and a Line6 M13 are worth the extra spend over a standard amp and a Boss GT-10 (modelling a AC-30) then i'll try to go for that. I really want gear that will stay useful as my playing improves, ie. with enough depth for an experienced guitarist who wants to emulate Edge.

 

[vanquish7]

PS: I prob dont want to shell out the extra $250 or so for the Celestion speakers for the AC-15 just yet, are the Celestions key in getting an Edge tone?
That being so, would a Pathfinder be a better choice than a non-Celestion AC-15?
A Pathfinder + M13 combo will definitely be easier on the wallet than a AC-15 + M13 purchase, which I might have to stagger (only cos the 'rents will not be happy and might not let me buy everything at once).

 

[vanquish7]

Yea, so what do people think of a Pathfinder 15 with a M13?

Will that do a decent job at emulating a tube AC? I'm only going to be playing in my bedroom.

 

[BB Mac]

the M13 is basically the all in one box so everything
you need in there. saves buying loadsss of pedals
and ending up like me with 27 pedals or so

edited this after seeing your other post

you cant beat tube amps so im not sure how
the pathfinder sounds! but vox do smaller valve
amps now. once you start using valve amps
its night and day with the others..

you should go onto you tube and check out clips



good luck Bruce

 

[branwalls]

BB mac is right about tube amps. There really is a difference in tone with even a relatively small, relatively cheap tube amp like a Fender Blues Jr. Spend the extra money and get a tube amp if you want to sound like The Edge.

That being said, you seem to be on the right path. And since you'll just be playing in your bedroom (for now), there really is no substitute for getting out to some guitar shops and trying as many set-ups and as many amps as you can (in your price range). Maybe call around and see if you can find a shop with a pathfinder 15 and an m13 in stock. They'll probably let you try them together. Then you just trust your ears. If you think it sounds like The Edge, that's all you need to know. Maybe a tube amp is right for you. Maybe you'll find a modeling amp that just sounds right to you. Then you know to buy that one. Most of all, have fun with it. To me, there's nothing better than having some money to spend on gear and just going out and trying stuff (and that's why, like BB mac, I have about 27 pedals)

 

[vanquish7]

Thanks

I would rather get an AC15 but atm I won't be allowed to get it AND the M13.
So I was thinking of getting the Pathfinder 15 and the M13 now and maybe upgrading to the AC15 with Celestion speakers later on.

I've only read good things about the Pathfinders (both press reviews and forums) they apparently do a great job at sounding like the more expensive tube Vox's at a excellent price and make a great practice amp.
http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=3372
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-owners-clubs/166040-vox-pathfinder-owners.html
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=51841 Apparently it sounds more like a tube Vox than a Fender Jr


It was Edge_Orchestra's first recommendation as well.

 

[theedgeu2]

I've heard the Pathfinders are great amps. I haven't played one though. It's funny cause I have these two items on my list (AC15 and the M13). I haven't tried the M13. As for the AC15, you can get extremely close. I fell in love with the reverb on that amp. I couldn't run any effects through it but I can imagine the delay going through that amp. I think either way you go, Pathfinder or AC15, you'd be getting there. And the M13 allows you to run 4 different effects at the same time as well as like 80 somethin choices of effects. Edge O's advice is really good. Good luck with your purchase ! It's good to see people trying to get as close as they can to Edge's tone.

 

[razredge]

I've heard the Pathfinders are great amps. I haven't played one though. It's funny cause I have these two items on my list (AC15 and the M13). I haven't tried the M13. As for the AC15, you can get extremely close. I fell in love with the reverb on that amp. I couldn't run any effects through it but I can imagine the delay going through that amp. I think either way you go, Pathfinder or AC15, you'd be getting there. And the M13 allows you to run 4 different effects at the same time as well as like 80 somethin choices of effects. Edge O's advice is really good. Good luck with your purchase ! It's good to see people trying to get as close as they can to Edge's tone.

Thanks, I think Pathfinder and M13 it is, will look to upgrad to a M15CC in a year or so (when I can actually play).

With a guitarist like the Edge, tone is key when trying to play like him. If it's even a bit off, it doesn't sound nearly as special.

 

[the tourist]

M15cc?

 

[vanquish7]

M15cc?

Lol, getting confused AC-15 CC

 

[the tourist]

Lol, getting confused AC-15 CC

I figured that to be the case. If the pathfinder is really as good as I keep hearing for a practice amp, I might have to pick one up. I've got an AC30TB and a Blues Jr for when I play out, but they're too loud for the apartment, so I play acoustic at home.

 

[vanquish7]

I figured that to be the case. If the pathfinder is really as good as I keep hearing for a practice amp, I might have to pick one up. I've got an AC30TB and a Blues Jr for when I play out, but they're too loud for the apartment, so I play acoustic at home.

Yea, i'm looking for a cheap Pathfinder 15 (should I get the 15R?, does it sound more AC-30 like, or does it just have a reverb effect?)

BTW does anyone know the cheapest place I can get Herdim picks from?

 

[branwalls]

BTW does anyone know the cheapest place I can get Herdim picks from?

Pick-HER004-Herdim Teardrop Rounded Tip-nylon available from Prussia Valley Dulcimer Acoustic Music Shop www.prussiavalley.com

If you're in the US, this is the only place I know of.

 

[vanquish7]

Pick-HER004-Herdim Teardrop Rounded Tip-nylon available from Prussia Valley Dulcimer Acoustic Music Shop www.prussiavalley.com

If you're in the US, this is the only place I know of.

Thanks, but im not in the States. I found some cheap on Ebay anyway.

BTW does anyone know if Line6 is going to upgrade the M13 next year?
I dont know what the lifespan of effects boxes is, do they release replacements every 2 years or so, or is it longer than that?

Cos I might wait for the M14 or whatever instead.

 

[vanquish7]

PS: Oh and how does the Pod X3 live compare to the M13?
What are the differences?

 

[vanquish7]

I think I did something stupid.

I bought an M13 off eBay, got a good price but its coming from the US and i'm in Australia and I completely forgot about the whole power issue.

Does anyone know if the M13's come with adaptors?

 

[Chill Mike D]

I have played neither the X3 Live nor the M13, but the main differences, from what I've read, is that the X3 Live is a full multi-fx modeller with a shitload of amp models, whereas the M13 is essentially a stompbox modeller meant to be used with your own amp, because it does no amp modeling.

The product manager for the M13 said that amp modeling takes up a lot more processing power than effects modeling, and since the M13 doesn't model amps, its processor is devoted wholly to doing effects, and this means that many of the effects on the M13 are of a higher quality than the X3 Live.

That's what I've read anyway.

 

[vanquish7]

I have played neither the X3 Live nor the M13, but the main differences, from what I've read, is that the X3 Live is a full multi-fx modeller with a shitload of amp models, whereas the M13 is essentially a stompbox modeller meant to be used with your own amp, because it does no amp modeling.

The product manager for the M13 said that amp modeling takes up a lot more processing power than effects modeling, and since the M13 doesn't model amps, its processor is devoted wholly to doing effects, and this means that many of the effects on the M13 are of a higher quality than the X3 Live.

That's what I've read anyway.

Thanks! That's good to hear, since I went with the m13, now I just need to find a cheap replacement power supply for it to work here.

 

[edgedaclone]

by the way, line 6 released 2 firmware upgrades for the m13 (available at line 6 website). The version 2 adds 20 or more new effects to the m13, including the pitch glide (whammy) which comes handy to play even better than the real thing, and several types of wah. Basically the m13 has pretty much all the effects needed to play u2. Since the whammy and wah are the nicest new feautres you might consider adding an expression pedal so you can fully manipulate the effects (ie. the ex-1 pedal).

 

[vanquish7]

by the way, line 6 released 2 firmware upgrades for the m13 (available at line 6 website). The version 2 adds 20 or more new effects to the m13, including the pitch glide (whammy) which comes handy to play even better than the real thing, and several types of wah. Basically the m13 has pretty much all the effects needed to play u2. Since the whammy and wah are the nicest new feautres you might consider adding an expression pedal so you can fully manipulate the effects (ie. the ex-1 pedal).

Thanks, do you know if the M13's come with the latest firmware installed? Or do u have to upgrade it manually. That's apparently a painful process using multiple MIDI cables, which i have none.

Yea, i'll definitely be getting an expression pedal later, especially seeing as the explorer has no tremolo bar

Is the M13 the first real 'Edge in a box' FX unit? It does seem very versatile and not just for U2, I was watching someone play the intro to Lovers in Japan on it, I never thought that was guitar, always seemd like Eno's synthwork to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8lwJWX9JmI

 

[goku8586]

Newbie needs gear

I got a great set up for you can't buy an amp. I use a program called guitar rig 3. It absolutely nails the vox ac30 sound. I've tried several other software programs but gr3 is the best. It has several different amp models but it nails the ac30 sound perfectly. I can't get a real ac30 because of apartment living but this with this program I can play through my headphones and still get perfect sound quality. Here's my set up. Line 6 m13 into a Presonus tube preamp. I use ableton live 8 to record and through that program I use amplitube 2,gtr waves and guitar rig 3. For drums I use drumcore. I monitor through a set of Sennheiser headphones(about $84 at guitar center) into a livewire headphone amp. My audio interface is a M-Audio Delta 66 break out box. I just run a tsr 1/4" cable into the headphone amp from the breakout box. With the M13 I just use the "on the edge" scene and run it with the U2 preset on guitar rig 3 and bam! Perfect edge tone.
This is a great set up if you can't play through a real amp. I've tried alot of different things make this work but this is perfect. Send me msg if you need any more help. good luck! Oh, I play three guitars. A Gibson Les Paul Studio,an American fender strat with custom EMG pickups,and a Martin Dc16 Aura

 

[edgedaclone]

Thanks, do you know if the M13's come with the latest firmware installed? Or do u have to upgrade it manually. That's apparently a painful process using multiple MIDI cables, which i have none.

Yea, i'll definitely be getting an expression pedal later, especially seeing as the explorer has no tremolo bar

Is the M13 the first real 'Edge in a box' FX unit? It does seem very versatile and not just for U2, I was watching someone play the intro to Lovers in Japan on it, I never thought that was guitar, always seemd like Eno's synthwork to me YouTube - Line 6 M13 Coldplay Lovers in Japan guitar intro

Hi,
I have yet to see an m13 with the new firmware out of the box, meaning you'll have to do it manually. It's not as hard as it looks. Just follow the directions and you're good to go.

Strictly speaking the m13 falls a bit short of being Edge in a box because it does not have amp modeler, so unless you have a vox ac30 or an amp modeler that emulates the ac30 you're just one piece short off the tone.

The m13 is very versatile. I play Marillion, Pink Floyd, some metallica and m13 has never let me down. I always get the tone I want.

hope it helps.

 

[goku8586]

Gear

I think I did something stupid.

I bought an M13 off eBay, got a good price but its coming from the US and i'm in Australia and I completely forgot about the whole power issue.

Does anyone know if the M13's come with adaptors?

I got a great set up for you can't buy an amp. I use a program called guitar rig 3. It absolutely nails the vox ac30 sound. I've tried several other software programs but gr3 is the best. It has several different amp models but it nails the ac30 sound perfectly. I can't get a real ac30 because of apartment living but this with this program I can play through my headphones and still get perfect sound quality. Here's my set up. Line 6 m13 into a Presonus tube preamp. I use ableton live 8 to record and through that program I use amplitube 2,gtr waves and guitar rig 3. For drums I use drumcore. I monitor through a set of Sennheiser headphones(about $84 at guitar center) into a livewire headphone amp. My audio interface is a M-Audio Delta 66 break out box. I just run a tsr 1/4" cable into the headphone amp from the breakout box. With the M13 I just use the "on the edge" scene and run it with the U2 preset on guitar rig 3 and bam! Perfect edge tone.
This is a great set up if you can't play through a real amp. I've tried alot of different things make this work but this is perfect. Send me msg if you need any more help. good luck! Oh, I play three guitars. A Gibson Les Paul Studio,an American fender strat with custom EMG pickups,and a Martin Dc16 Aura

 

[the tourist]

Wow. First two posts are exactly identical.

 

[Edge_Orchestra]

M13 isn't instant "EIAB" (Edge in a Box) but one can get a lot of Edge tones in one place for $500.00 (less on the second hand market).

I have seen video clips from members at U2 Recording Yahoo group that have been very convincing for a number of tones.

No it will not nail "Mysterious Ways". Seems the only unit that does that convincingly is the Korg A3 - same as what The Edge uses.

But the M13 is a great bang for the buck. And it gets a higher rating from me than that of the Boss / Digitech multi-effects pedal units.

In the end, you will have to use your guitar, your amp and trust your ears as to which unit works best for you.

 

[Edge_Orchestra]

Wow. First two posts are exactly identical.

Great minds think alike? Birds of a Feather flock together?