Winter Should Have Replaced White as Snow on NLOTH

[mikal]

I don't understand why people say Winter sounds unfinished - especially when the new album has some unique song structures as it is.

Can someone explain what sounds unfinished about it? The lyric starts with a story about a man and then ends with the idea that the character knew he could kill upon having a son. Does not seem unfinished.

The intro and outro and beautiful and the chorus is quite strong...

As well as 5 different vocal styles displayed...

So what is unfinished?

the overall feel of the song. while i like "Winter".....quite a bit actually, it just doesn't sound as polished as the rest of the album. clearly, if they would have chosen it for the album, it would sound different.

also, the fact that The Edge said it was not finished is a pretty good clue too.

 

[thelaj]

This is why I see it as unfinished:

I can hear what sounds like a metronome/click track at the beginning

The intro synths are so derivative (and amateurish) I can't believe they are final

The mix does not seem final/polished/good

Bono's vocals are weak and don't sound like he put much time into them

The vocal melody is a bit "off"

Sound quality is pretty "demo-ish"

Lyrics aren't the best and seem unfinished ("Butter on toast" )

Meandering in the middle + non-chorus


If it is finished, then it is very disappointing. It has potential, but I don't think it is better than anything else on the album. I do like the "ooooooo" bit and the insistent guitar.

 

[redhill]

the overall feel of the song. while i like "Winter".....quite a bit actually, it just doesn't sound as polished as the rest of the album. clearly, if they would have chosen it for the album, it would sound different.

also, the fact that The Edge said it was not finished is a pretty good clue too.

Well the band does not seem to always know when to stop "cooking" a song...so Edge saying that might actually be a indicator to the contrary.

MOS does not sound polished at all and it is one of the best songs on the album.

Mercy is so good because it is not polished.

Bad does not sound polished (one of the only times Larry has varied high hat work in a certain portion of the song) and it is known as one of U2's best of all time.

So screw "polished." The band overcooks too much so Edge saying that it is not finished means that it is finished!

 

[thelaj]

There is a difference between "finished" "polished" and "unfinished". Winter is clearly the latter of those. I really like Mercy, but even that seems more finished than Winter.

To use your analogy: Winter is chicken which is pink in the middle.

 

[redhill]

This is why I see it as unfinished:

I can hear what sounds like a metronome/click track at the beginning

The intro synths are so derivative (and amateurish) I can't believe they are final

The mix does not seem final/polished/good

Bono's vocals are weak and don't sound like he put much time into them

The vocal melody is a bit "off"

Sound quality is pretty "demo-ish"

Lyrics aren't the best and seem unfinished ("Butter on toast" )

Meandering in the middle + non-chorus


If it is finished, then it is very disappointing. It has potential, but I don't think it is better than anything else on the album. I do like the "ooooooo" bit and the insistent guitar.

OK, the butter on toast line is lame. The line right after that is excellent though! No army in this world...could fight a ghost...and then right into the nasally chorus!

I kind of like the rough edges of this song as the slightly demo feel gives it more potency and a "raw" feeling that so much U2 lacks these days.

I disagree entirely about the vocals. I mean, he may not have put much time into them but do we need a million takes? I remember Lanois saying in the UF documentary that they do a million takes and it is often the 1st that was the best.

Why do you think that is? This song captures that feeling for me (watching Bono lay down a vocal for the first time and be forced to try and "live" in the song in that exact moment.)

I like the intro synth and there is a chorus....You also mention meandering in them middle but I like that as it is throwing the conventional song structure to the wind. Something U2 should do more often.

I guess the reason most people hate this song is the reason I love it. I wonder if there is a correlation to people who like Mercy also like Winter and vice versa?

 

[thelaj]

OK, the butter on toast line is lame. The line right after that is excellent though! No army in this world...could fight a ghost...and then right into the nasally chorus!

I kind of like the rough edges of this song as the slightly demo feel gives it more potency and a "raw" feeling that so much U2 lacks these days.

I disagree entirely about the vocals. I mean, he may not have put much time into them but do we need a million takes? I remember Lanois saying in the UF documentary that they do a million takes and it is often the 1st that was the best.

Why do you think that is? This song captures that feeling for me (watching Bono lay down a vocal for the first time and be forced to try and "live" in the song in that exact moment.)

I like the intro synth and there is a chorus....You also mention meandering in them middle but I like that as it is throwing the conventional song structure to the wind. Something U2 should do more often.

I guess the reason most people hate this song is the reason I love it. I wonder if there is a correlation to people who like Mercy also like Winter and vice versa?

I see all of your points, and agree with them to a degree. However, I think that Winter doesn't do any of the above well. A first take vocal (Moment of Surrender) can work fantastically well - on Winter it just comes across as one of Bono's weaker live performances.

Meandering structure works on Moment of Surrender, Unknown Caller - here it just seems like a studio jam.

I like Mercy because I think it is a) a better song and b) more finished
Winter could be a good song without polishing it to hell and ruining it (many songs on HTDAAB, and possibly Breathe - though I still love that song).

 

[redhill]

I see all of your points, and agree with them to a degree. However, I think that Winter doesn't do any of the above well. A first take vocal (Moment of Surrender) can work fantastically well - on Winter it just comes across as one of Bono's weaker live performances.

Meandering structure works on Moment of Surrender, Unknown Caller - here it just seems like a studio jam.

I like Mercy because I think it is a) a better song and b) more finished
Winter could be a good song without polishing it to hell and ruining it (many songs on HTDAAB, and possibly Breathe - though I still love that song).

Wow! A rational person!

I did not know they still existed!

 

[adrball]

I think the opening segment of Winter is amazing. But for me this song just never takes off after that. Leaves me feeling a little bit empty, if you get me.

White As Snow has earned its place on the album for me. It's complete.

 

[Popmart Shopper]

Winter would have been the weakest song on the album. I prefer all 11 to it.

Agreed.100 percent.

 

[jamaral]

Simple answer: NO.

Every song on the album is way better than Winter.

I prefer winter to any song on the album. Funny

 

[stealthboy]

I prefer winter to any song on the album. Funny

Ok, everybody has opinions. But yours is just plain wrong!

 

[jamaral]

Ok, everybody has opinions. But yours is just plain wrong!

And i prefer mercy, levitate, stateless and smile to everything in the album too

And i love to be "wrong"

 

[lazarus]

Although I'm warming up to Winter, I do think it's derivative, and I have to agree with thelaj on the criticisms. Compared to Mercy, this does seem a lot more unfinished.

The vocal isn't nearly as strong as the rest of the stuff from No Line. And MOS may have been a "one-take" for some of the music, but that didn't include the vocal.

There are also too many parts to the song, and they don't really seem to fit together that well.

Mercy gets a lot of shit for meandering a bit, but at least it has a natural flow.

 

[Popmart Shopper]

I only heard Winter twice through You Tube obviously it wasnt a very clean clear version so I cant really judge it quite yet I guess.

 

[redhill]

I prefer winter to any song on the album. Funny

Why do you think that is?

I think it captures a very intense and "code red" kind of feeling that hearkens back to earlier U2 while still having some of the characteristics of the better songs that belong on this album.

 

[xtrmx]

Yes I agree with the OP, Winter in WaS's place would've made the album 10 ten better (than it already is).

I can honestly say the album is over for me once WhiteAsSnow starts, I just press stop and start with song1 again. I never get to breathe

 

[redhill]

Although I'm warming up to Winter, I do think it's derivative, and I have to agree with thelaj on the criticisms. Compared to Mercy, this does seem a lot more unfinished.

The vocal isn't nearly as strong as the rest of the stuff from No Line. And MOS may have been a "one-take" for some of the music, but that didn't include the vocal.

There are also too many parts to the song, and they don't really seem to fit together that well.

Mercy gets a lot of shit for meandering a bit, but at least it has a natural flow.

I thought MOS was a one take vocal (for Bono) and then they layered others on top...

 

[Yahweh_OMG]

no...prefer WAS, it's a great tune. Winter is clearly not finished!

 

[ozeeko]

If you dig Coldplay, then Winter probably sounds fantastic.

 

[jajanee]

no way.

 

[redhill]

no...prefer WAS, it's a great tune. Winter is clearly not finished!

Why do you say that?

 

[lazarus]

I thought MOS was a one take vocal (for Bono) and then they layered others on top...

No, the music was recorded in one take, and from what Adam says in the deluxe box book, there were still parts added later.

If you check the early articles that mentioned the song, they noted that Bono's vocal wasn't taken from that studio improv.

 

[intedomine]

If anything, the original tracklisting for NLOTH (LineaR) is better than the actual tracklisting.

This means that you've got Winter on the album instead of IGCIIDGCT, which is a fine little song, but doesn't work on this album, and is obviously a McGuine$$ demand to have something a little more poppy, which Winter is anything but, being a 6 minute song.

There are already three better singles on the album anyway, who needs Crazy Tonight if you've got Magnificent, Breathe and Sexy BootZ.

 

[Blue Room]

I think Winter is better than White As Snow and should have made the album. I think its better than Cedars Of Lebanon also, I don't care for the song at all. Its just a yawner to me. I know I'm probably in the minority on that one, but I skip the song everytime (and White As Snow). I don't want to doze off while I'm driving!

The only part that is Coldplayish is the intro to me. Who knows, maybe U2 wrote this before CP did. Just because it came out after CP's last album doesn't mean they didn't write it first. Its funny because Coldplay were accused of of stealing the idea of Vida La Vida from a couple of other artists. Now a few here seem to be implying U2 are doing the same from CP........

 

[toscano]

If you dig Coldplay, then Winter probably sounds fantastic.

I don't dig Coldplay. I think Winter sounds fantastic. Better than WAS, COL, GOYB or Crazy.

 

[Needle_Chill]

White As Snow is >>> than Winter in its current state. I really like the shell of Winter, but I would like to hear the finished version. WAS is my third fav... and sometimes #1 depending on mood.

I slot in Winter after SUC... I think it fits there right now if need be. Good way to forget the pop interruption (err... I mean interlude) from 5-7.

And yes, this is U2 covering a Coldplay song that Coldplay hasn't written yet. The smooth beauty of a Coldplay song with the soul, maturity, and guitar 'edge' of a U2 song.

 

[Yahweh_OMG]

Why do you say that?

first of all because I like White as snow.

secondly because I think Winter goes a bit in all direction, not only musically, but also with his voice, like if Bono did not sound the same (recorded on many different days). It's probably on purpose, but I don't like it that much.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Well, this could be another Mercy thread. I guess it could be more ridiculous if you really try

 

[clerks]

BUT we have all 12 songs.... so why does it matter?

I want the songs that haven't released at all, like the rubin stuff!

 

[Laugend]

White as Snow is perfect on the album
Winter should take a place in the new CD