The Crystal Ballroom Admiration Thread

[lazarus]

Being new to the forum, I'm a little surprised at how many comments I come across where the person is wishing this or that were done differently in a song. It is the vision of the artist, not the audience.

The thing is, you don't hear a lot of people doing this with songs on The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, or Zooropa.

But with U2000, we have documented proof via interviews and articles that the band has second-guessed their ideas on numerous occasions, and in the last 10-15 years Bono has gone on and on about trying to write hit songs, appealing to the masses, reapplying for The Best Band In The World, etc.

I think it's completely legitimate that many of us wish the band would operate on defiant instinct and stick to what they merely think is good, and not cross-checking it with what they think other people might think is good. That's what you have a producer for; a set of objective ears. And on the last two albums they didn't trust what Eno and Danger Mouse had achieved with them, and compromised the material with late-hour additions and mixes via new producers. That isn't to say that Tedder, Epworth, and Lillywhite turned everything to shit, but we do know this is how their process worked.

 

[trevgreg]

At the same time, there's no guarantee that the earlier versions of the DM-produced tracks or the early versions of NLOTH tracks would have had great songs either. In the end, producers like Eno and Lanois did work on songs like GOYB and mentioned it in interviews. So it's not like one of them said "Hey guys, this completely sucks and you should keep it off the album" either.

 

[lazarus]

Whether the earlier versions would have been better or not, the band started off in a specific direction with certain collaborators and changed horses mid-stream. It's "compromised" any way you want to slice it.

They didn't do this kind of thing before.

 

[U2girl]

At the same time, there's no guarantee that the earlier versions of the DM-produced tracks or the early versions of NLOTH tracks would have had great songs either. In the end, producers like Eno and Lanois did work on songs like GOYB and mentioned it in interviews. So it's not like one of them said "Hey guys, this completely sucks and you should keep it off the album" either.

This. They have a tendence to get into it early on, get into some conundrum or another along the way (Chris Thomas not working/Adam and Larry vetoing early Bomb record, Morocco not working, DM running out of time), only to finish it all up in a frantic manner months or weeks before the end. We got release delays on every album post Zooropa.

Or, to rewind the clock, Berlin nearly destroying them until Eno and a good talk back in Dublin set them back on track, and the mad dash of finshing up Pop with an army of producers in time for the booked tour.

 

[lemonfly]

This. They have a tendence to get into it early on, get into some conundrum or another along the way (Chris Thomas not working/Adam and Larry vetoing early Bomb record, Morocco not working, DM running out of time), only to finish it all up in a frantic manner months or weeks before the end. We got release delays on every album post Zooropa.

Or, to rewind the clock, Berlin nearly destroying them until Eno and a good talk back in Dublin set them back on track, and the mad dash of finshing up Pop with an army of producers in time for the booked tour.

They may have suffered a crisis of confidence with AB, but they certainly didn't scrap everything and start over. The "big idea" survived to the end. They didn't call up Mutt Lange (or whoever the "hot" producer was back then) and ask them to tweak the album to render the songs more radio-friendly. They didn't water-down The Fly and Zoo Station because they feared that kind of radical transition would be too much for their 80s fans to digest. That's exactly what they did by bringing in Epworth/Tedder. Crises of confidence have been with U2 since day 1. Losing their sack midway through an album and severely compromising the original vision is a more recent phenomenon. Suggesting that what they did with the last few albums is in any way similar to the AB sessions is revisionist history.

 

[Salome]

I remember a dj in The Netherlands playing Lady with the Spinning Head (whatever it was called again) from the Salome sessions back in 1990 and afterwards bemoaning U2 hadn't stayed the course on with the album.
Not saying that he was right, but at least because of the Salome sessions we have an idea about the original vision (if any) behind Achtung.
With No Line and SOI etc we actually know way less about the original sessions and still we have people completely convinced the band 'sacrificed their original vision'.
All I really get from it is that you prefer the end result of Achtung to U2's post 2000 albums.

 

[U2girl]

They may have suffered a crisis of confidence with AB, but they certainly didn't scrap everything and start over. The "big idea" survived to the end. They didn't call up Mutt Lange (or whoever the "hot" producer was back then) and ask them to tweak the album to render the songs more radio-friendly. They didn't water-down The Fly and Zoo Station because they feared that kind of radical transition would be too much for their 80s fans to digest. That's exactly what they did by bringing in Epworth/Tedder. Crises of confidence have been with U2 since day 1. Losing their sack midway through an album and severely compromising the original vision is a more recent phenomenon. Suggesting that what they did with the last few albums is in any way similar to the AB sessions is revisionist history.

There wasn't, I believe, that much done in Berlin to scrap anyway. The Salome stolen tapes weren't exactly a wealth of complete material.

They brought in Tedder and Epworth because DM eventually ran out of time. Not counting SFS and Volcano - admiteddly done at the last minute - 9 out of 11 songs still feature DM as a producer. That's not scraping everything. And hot producer ? DM's pretty hot at the moment, and has been for a few years. That is not to mention hiring a DJ to make that record in mid-90s when dance was huge in Europe.

And we have no idea how the 2010 "set of songs" they set aside sounded like, or how it compromised the vision of Bono's teenage Dublin years / what inspired the young U2 as a band theme of SOI. It looks like that has become SOE though, so we will get to hear this.

The point is, and you agree, they have a history of getting into material, getting into trouble of some sort and wrapping it up frantically in the nick of time. This didn't start in 2000 even if it is repeated ad infinitum.
Who knows what we might have read if the internet had been around in the 80's or 90's.

 

[last unicorn]

It's a phenomenon among many U2 fans that they always seem to prefer songs or versions of songs that the band has abandoned during the recording process without even knowing what they sound like. If the band felt it didn't fit and it wasn't they direction they wanted to go (for whatever reason), there's no reason for me not to accept and respect this decision, otherwise we wouldn't have got an album at all, because U2 would never release anything if they're not completely happy with it. It's their own decision and they can do what they want as artists. If the band is happy with their material and has an enthusiasm and passion about it, I'm happy with it, too. And since I don't know any of the old DM material, I cannot comment on it being better or worse or anything. It's just absurd to even try and go there.

 

[Bad Exit]

One thing I love/hate about u2 (post 90) is how "perfectionists" they are about the music that goes into their albums.

For the majority of the bands -it seems to me- that anytime they have 10 songs or so, they release an album.

On the other hand, u2, they have 10 songs, but they don't like 7 of them, so they come up with another 10 songs (or variations of the previous ones). And they still don't like them. And on and on until finally they have the definite list.

I love this because usually there's a lot of extra stuff (b-sides, different versions, mixes, unreleased singles) with really great quality, and the albums doesn't seem to have any fodder, every single song seems to have earned their way into it, right or wrong.

I hate this because instead of getting one album every other year, we have to wait 4 or 5 years. Also because neither we nor them, know if some of those discarded songs may have had an impact if they were actually released. Finally, because of the overproducing in the albums, it misses that freshness.

In the end, although I'd like them to tone their search for perfection a bit down, I like the way they do it.

 

[stray dog]

The thing is, you don't hear a lot of people doing this with songs on The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, or Zooropa.

But with U2000, we have documented proof via interviews and articles that the band has second-guessed their ideas on numerous occasions, and in the last 10-15 years Bono has gone on and on about trying to write hit songs, appealing to the masses, reapplying for The Best Band In The World, etc.

I think it's completely legitimate that many of us wish the band would operate on defiant instinct and stick to what they merely think is good, and not cross-checking it with what they think other people might think is good. That's what you have a producer for; a set of objective ears. And on the last two albums they didn't trust what Eno and Danger Mouse had achieved with them, and compromised the material with late-hour additions and mixes via new producers. That isn't to say that Tedder, Epworth, and Lillywhite turned everything to shit, but we do know this is how their process worked.

I remember the Joshua Tree era differently. I remember fans saying U2 sold out. I remember when they finally got a top ten hit it about .being trying to appeal to the masses. I remember Time putting then on the cover. I don't think that is a fair criticism unless you include everything popular they have ever done JT RH AB . Under those guidelines U2 should just put out October every October. I kinda like With Or Without You...Desire...Mysterious Ways. I really don't care if U2 is popular or not or if they want to be or not. I just like to listen to them.

 

[MillyU2]

The point was not artistic differences between U2 and producers. But how some of the members here seem to know better than both and consistently post comments where they point out how a song could have been better or even how it is not good without further discussion. Maybe it is the nature of social-network mentality fandom nowadays because I have been a part of fandoms since the 90ies and don't recall such attitude.

Personally, I find it an expression of a strong sense of entitlement that is irrelevant to most communication happening in a discussion thread. This track, for example: whether you think it should be done like this or like that, the fact is it wasn't and I haven't seen anyone post their own better and greater version to make a relevant case.

 

[david]

The song should have been called The Crystal Bathroom because it is the shit.

 

[lazarus]

the mad dash of finshing up Pop with an army of producers in time for the booked tour.

An "army of producers"? Look at the album credits. Flood has production credit on every track, and Howie B (who was there for this entire process) has co-producing credit on four of them.

Only Do You Feel Loved has additional production from Steve Osbourne.

Nice try.

 

[mikal]

It's a one man army dawg!


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[prbiker15]

the song should have been called the crystal bathroom because it is the shit.

I see what you did there.

 

[corianderstem]

I see a tweet that claims Edge says either EBW or Crystal Ballroom is the next single. (from a Spanish interview, apparently)


.... fuck me, if they pick Crystal Ballroom I think I'll be eating my hat in front of a few posters. Better stock up on ketchup.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I see a tweet that claims Edge says either EBW or Crystal Ballroom is the next single. (from a Spanish interview, apparently)


.... fuck me, if they pick Crystal Ballroom I think I'll be eating my hat in front of a few posters. Better stock up on ketchup.

I think you're safe. Being that EBW is taking off on radio(at least here in the US) I'm willing to bet that it's the next single.

And everyone knows that mustard goes better with hats.

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[prbiker15]

I see a tweet that claims Edge says either EBW or Crystal Ballroom is the next single.

I saw it as well. Interesting.

(I really want EBW to be the second single, though)

 

[mikal]

I would be shocked if they picked a B-Side as their 2nd single,though I would fully support them releasing TCB and acoustic EBW at the same time.


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[lazarus]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's Crystal Ballroom but it would make absolutely no sense. Then again, it's a way to get people to buy something they didn't already have for free, I suppose.

It would be more believable as a third or fourth single but again, if they thought it was that good, they would have put it on the album. I still think California and Volcano are more likely.

And I'll repeat my report from a week or so ago that I saw a billboard in Hollywood for the album with "featuring The Miracle and Song For Someone" at the bottom.

 

[Nick66]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's Crystal Ballroom but it would make absolutely no sense. Then again, it's a way to get people to buy something they didn't already have for free, I suppose.

I believe TCB is available to download as an individual track at Amazon, etc...and will soon be on iTunes. For someone who already has the free version of the record, it would seem to me it would just be easier, and cheaper to purchase it this way. Assuming U2 made it a single and someone decided they had to have it. Why does everyone think this b-side is going to be the single, just because they love it so much? I'd think EBW or SFS would be a much more obvious, not to mention, appropriate choice vs. a b-side that features and instrumental section.

I'm not convinced this song is going to a single, but I guess stranger things have happened. I almost feel like they don't even really care that much at this point in terms of selling singles or the CD..how many more copies is that record really going to sell? It's all about promoting their brand and eventually the tour.

 

[pepokiss]

I just got the record on Thursday.

I listened to the song all weekend.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! (maybe I don't like the ending, but that's a problem with most songs of SOI)
But I love it!

Please make it a single and do a dance remix and play it live and all

 

[CosmoKramer]

(maybe I don't like the ending, but that's a problem with most songs of SOI)
/

What about the ending of Iris? The last 2 min is beautiful(although you did say most and not all)

Also, TCB is a really good song, I'm with you!


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[pepokiss]

The thing is, I HATE Iris.
The "UuUuUu" and bass and guitar in the chorus kills it for me. There's no way back from that point on.

In TCB, the ending, the absolute ending, if you hear it loud, it sounds speed up and just and aftertought.

In general, I don't like the endings in EBW, SFS, even California. They seem with lack of effort.

 

[Super Yo]

The thing is, I HATE Iris.
The "UuUuUu" and bass and guitar in the chorus kills it for me. There's no way back from that point on.

In TCB, the ending, the absolute ending, if you hear it loud, it sounds speed up and just and aftertought.

In general, I don't like the endings in EBW, SFS, even California. They seem with lack of effort.

You have a problem with endings.


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[Montrose]

The thing is, I HATE Iris.
The "UuUuUu" and bass and guitar in the chorus kills it for me. There's no way back from that point on.

In TCB, the ending, the absolute ending, if you hear it loud, it sounds speed up and just and aftertought.

In general, I don't like the endings in EBW, SFS, even California. They seem with lack of effort.

No happy endings for you, huh?


Sent from my fingertips.

 

[Zoo Lemon]

I see a tweet that claims Edge says either EBW or Crystal Ballroom is the next single. (from a Spanish interview, apparently)

Yes. This was the original fan question: https://twitter.com/Bonozevolik/status/524569882546176000

Q. Will 'The Crystall Ballroom' be a single? It's a wonderful song.

Edge: I love it too, it came in a very natural way, but we set it aside to focus on the most difficult issues. When we listened to the incredible remix that Tchad Blake did (the 12'' one?), we realized how powerful it was. I think Adam has played one of his best bass parts on that. We do not know what the next single will be, but I think it is one of the best songs, so do not be surprised if we choose it.

Tony Aguilar entrevista a U2! | Actualidad | Los 40 Principales

By the way, EBW being the 2nd single seems to be set in stone so far.

 

[david]

In the old days in the UK singles weren't actually on albums.

 

[CosmoKramer]

My opinion on their best course of action single wise:


2: Every Breaking Wave
3: Crystal Ballroom
4: Song for Someone
5: Troubles
6: California
7: Volcano


I like the upbeat then mellow release approach although SFS followed by Troubles would be two "slow" songs in a row but they both have hit potential.

The Crystal Ballroom would be a great #3 single but I feel Some in the bands camp would want to not release it and stick to the "proper" album singles.

Now, if someone wants to revive the old "this is a double album" topic, it would put TCB front and center again


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[jeevey]

Hm, wonder if the band has noticed that TCB is the only song with more than a thousand posts to it's name?